Would you need to know?

[Hehasasecretfriend]

I've had some threads up recently about my relationship spectacularly falling apart.

There were problems and we were in therapy, I thought working through them.

I then discovered a load of flirty messages with a hobby friend, hence my username. How far things went is undetermined but I do know I can't trust him to tell me the truth about stuff.

My therapist is in agreement with my perspective that the 'work' we were doing in therapy was pointless as he was being dishonest.

I am steeling myself to get through what lies ahead as I know that it is going to be a tough battle. He doesn't want the split and I know won't be reasonable. I can see already how is trying to manipulate things.

My biggest fear is that I will lose my nerve. My mind keeps spiralling in circles, it's like it's playing tricks on me trying to find scenarios where this is not the big deal I've imagined it to be. It is though.

Other things that didn't add up throughout our relationship now keep whirring through my mind, loads of things that made no sense.

This evening I have a strong suspicion he's up to something. He's claiming he will stay out of our way for an extra 1.5 hours after work to give us space for our girls night. Us is me and our 4 year old daughter. Whenever he is out we yell girls night, it's just a silly joke. Occasionally we have pizza but it's basically like any other evening with cuddles on the couch. I asked him why he is taking direction from a child, that we aren't going to a nightclub till 3am but he's being really pushy and saying he's being nice.

All my antennae are up. I never felt like this before about him wanting to go to his hobbies, anytime something seemed strange the only thing I ever thought was "this is like one of those scenarios that people describe when they found out about the infidelity but it is obviously not the case here".

Now I'm flashing back to him strongly wanting to take my car but then opting for public transport in favour of lifts from me, not being where he said he'd be and getting drenched in the rain 'out for a walk' instead of waiting in the clubhouse for me combined with either a foul humour or a preoccupied humour and no interest in sex.

I don't think there's one woman but many possibly paid women and I've been living in lala land.

I want to leave my phone in the car and map the location.

Am I making this worse for myself?

Imo the level of suspicion shows your relationship is over whether you find proof or not...
He doesn't get to decide if it's over..

It does read as if he is up to something, but what if it is all innocent? What then?

What do you actually want to happen?
Do you want evidence so you can bargain a better divorce settlement for yourself?

Sounds like you've decided you're split up anyway, so why does it matter what he's up to now?
Just crack on with the divorce IMO. He doesn't sound trustworthy.

@Hehasasecretfriend would it help to talk through those things which haven't made sense? You can change specific details if you want to keep it anonymous.

I get it. You've been believing one reality to be your reality but now you've been thrown into this hole of not knowing what is real or not. It's not quite as simple as LTB, is it? You need to know what has been going on and what is the truth.

Get your ducks in a row. Get all information photocopied or originals. Definitely either follow or get a cheap voice activated recorder for the car or even an airtag. I caught my exh with the recording device after him lying for months we were also in counselling. He almost had me believing it was in my head!!!! Make a plan and leave or pack his bags. Good luck 🤞

The trust , in your relationship, has gone.

It needs to end , really.

Could you be in the denial and bargaining stage of grief? Needing to find absolute proof before you accept the situation could be part of that. IME, once the trust is gone, it’s almost impossible to get it back, especially with a partner who has no intention of changing. You need to find your anger op, that will propel you forward and give you the impetus to get rid of the guy that is causing you such misery.

There's too many red flags here, even the therapist has said it's a waste of time.
Tracking him will only cause you more pain and not worth it. Once the trust has gone that's it.
Get a divorce and get rid.

Tracking him will provide OP with the truth she so desperately needs.

It's this yes. I'm worried about my resolve fading and giving into "oh it's so hard, it's too much upheaval and what he did wasn't so bad" when my upset fades.

So he might be doing something or nothing? It might be as bad as paid sex or meeting up with a FWB, or it might be that he likes to spend some time alone? What was the tone of the messages, did he acknowledge that they were inappropriate and did he promise to stop messaging this person?
Were there any other incidents beyond him choosing to walk in the rain, declining a lift from you, and not being where he said he would be?
The moods can be a sign of infidelity but they can also be a sign of so many other things too.

@gettingthethrow yes he admitted the messages were inappropriate and he crossed a line. He is no longer in contact with her.

My concern is given i was so obvious to what was happening between him and this flirty sports friendship (his words) it is only tip of the iceberg.

I've no idea why he's so determined to get out of the house tonight, the reason he has given me is total nonsense though. He has plenty of time to himself during the week but this window of time seems very important to him.

He made a huge fuss about similar before, I couldn't understand it but the messages showed he was supposed to be meeting this secret flirty friend for their hobby.

*I was so oblivious

I think I have been heavily manipulated and gaslit (along with the therapist) and I want to know the extent of it now for peace of mind.

In answer to your post title. Yes, I would need to know.
I am certainly the sort of person who, however painful, would need to know everything. I couldn't move on in any direction with that amount of doubt hanging over me.

If leaving your phone in the car to see where he goes helps you OP, then do that. You are picking up on something and you need to know what it is. As far as i'm concerned when someone gives you enough reason to start doubting your trust in them, they have no right to start being all high and mighty about you checking it out for yourself. And those that protest the loudest are, in my experience, always guilty of the thing you are suspecting.

Sorry I've realised my op is garbled and makes no sense.

He has not been trustworthy (no question) and I need to know the extent of it.

I want to separate but I'm in for a massive battle.

There have been ongoing strange things related to Thursday nights hobby but I thought nothing of it before now.

Now this week he has been furious that he can't get to his hobby but i haven't budged on my plans and he will have to work.

He has changed tack on his insistence he gets to his hobby and made up some rubbish about being nice to give us some space later so staying on at work.

He is clearly determined to be out of the house this evening. He will have the car so I can't follow him.

The only thing I can think is to put my phone in the back of the car.

Is there an accurate app I can use to show where the phone has been? Sorry I am useless at this stuff.

If you have an iPhone and an iPad you can use the find my iPhone app. Download the app and connect the two you will be able to see exactly where your phone is up to about 50 feet I believe. Only remember to turn you phone onto silent and turn off the vibration. Hope this helps but if you have another phone maybe use google maps it can be set to keep a history of places you have been. Quick google will show you how to set this on google maps. Hope this helps.

@Hehasasecretfriend, you are well aware of your Partner’s behavior patterns. I recall that he was previously irate about missing his hobby when he was planning to see OW there. Are you concerned that he has arranged to see her tonight?

Last year your family hosted a young woman who relentlessly gazed at, wore skimpy clothes around, cozied up to, and arranged lifts from P. In front of you, he’d always move away from her, but you’ve recently wondered if anything actually happened between them. She is back in the area and has messaged you to meet up. Do you know if she has also messaged P? Are you wondering if he is meeting her?

He will never ever tell you the truth. You will never get to the bottom of it.

@Hehasasecretfriend, you would be doing yourself and your daughter a grave disservice if you allow your resolve to weaken.

There’s no doubt that your P has gaslit you for years, and he then proceeded to manipulate the therapist and corrupt the counseling sessions. While you were pouring your heart and soul into working on the relationship, he was relentlessly pursuing OW. His capacity for deceit is off the charts.

The greatest concern for me is his mistreatment of little DD. Your thread about ‘don’t tell mummy’ was very disturbing. His threatening her that he would leave and never return if she soiled her pants again was horrifying. The poor child withheld her stool for 3 days after that.

He enjoyed undermining you and manipulating DD by telling her that you’re crazy and to ignore you when you say ‘no’ to her ….. that he would let her do or have X after mummy leaves. That kind of dynamic is highly damaging to a child. He was also ranting at, belittling, financially abusing, and lying to you. By the end of the thread, you had ordered a nanny cam and taken out a protective order against him on the advice of the police and Women’s Aid.

Investigate further if you must, but his abuse of you and DD, investment in infidelity with OW, sabotage of the counseling, dishonesty and selfishness would be absolute dealbreakers for me.

Thank you @MsDogLady I'm back in with the support services and the therapist has filed a report with child protection after our explosive row. I have told her everything now. She has said child services are my best bet to help get him out of the house as they will prioritise child safety.

She gave me contact details for a different agency and I've followed up.

They have been on the phone to me all week and I've a meeting this morning. Yes the don't tell mummy was horrific, it became clear he was very unwell mentally shortly after that and had ongoing treatment. It was impossible to get anything sorted, only get through it. When the mental health team started helping it was like all focus moved to his health.

It looks straightforward looking in but when I'm lurching from one drama to the next it's hard to get a clear picture. Often it's so exhausting that when things calm down I want to be allowed calm with them.

I know 100% we need to be separate from him. But the prospect of separating (he will battle relentlessly) is so monumental my mind keeps playing tricks, I know fear is driving me to create scenarios that justify not going through with it then my rational mind shouts louder.

No I don't think he was meeting ow, I don't think he was meeting last year's young houseguest. I have a horrible feeling it's much worse.