Is it better to have a drunk and inept father or no father?

[gottanamechangeforthisone]

I'm still sharing a house with XP. He doesn't describe himself as an alcoholic but he dringks at least 4 cans of beer every night. He goes out and buys it every day to limit the amount he can drink as he's been a lot worse in the past. He starts at about lunch time and he's also a very heavy smoker (although he doesn't smoke near DS, he's always nipping out for another fag and leaving him unattended) and he just sits worrying about everything conatantly. he's not interested in any kind of professional help.

I don't think he'll ever change, but he's not horrible or violent when he's drunk, just a little slurred and dogamtic, and he loves DS although he's not as conscientous as me about looking after him. He'll feed him on chips or not bother to change his nappy when I would, nothing truly awful. The worst thing is that XP's not good at controlling his feelings so if I leave him with DS for more than a couple of hours, he gets irritable with him and tends to just tell him off all the time (DS is actually quite a good-natured toddler).

We've agreed that we'll get houses next door to one another but won't be in a financial position to do it for the next couple of years. I'm wondering about the influence he's having though; DS is already pretending to drink from cans of beer. It would rip XP to pieces, but I'm wondering if I should get DS away from him instead.

Just how bad will it be for DS growing up with a crap father who at least loves him and makes time for him? Or is he going to grow up to be a useless alcoholic as well if I don't get him away? I'm also worried that because of XP's age and state of health, both mental and physical, he might not live long enough to see DS grow up and I'm worried about the effect on DS if/ when he dies. It's so hard to get a sense of perspective.

There comes a point, I think, when children are embarrassed by drunken parents. And it might be better if they don't have to live with them then.

BIL was a drunk, now cleaned up, he is horrified at what he used to do around his young daughter (i.e ignore her or pass out while she was around, let her stay up till all hours, have his boozy mates round) and it really did her no end of harm and she is still having socialising problems now (5 years on). He used to shout at everyone which terrified her, he could not interact with the outside world other than by agression...luckily she didn't copy him but it made it really hard for her at school and she could not invite anyone home...
Now BIL is cleaned up he is a great dad and he is ashamed of what he used to be like...if you can get him to see the error of his ways do, otherwise your child is in for years of emotional neglect as an addict only thinks of themself...no matter how well intentioned they seem to be, saying "I love my kids" while sliding off the sofa into unconciousness at 6pm is not a good life model.

AttilaTheMeerkat I meant more in terms of whether the pattern had changed so I would know whether he was OK with DS - not in terms of checking on him as it's up to him whether he drinks himself to death - but it's up to me to make sure that DS is safe if I'm letting him spend time with his dad. Is that enabling, have I got the wrong end of the sitck?

Maybe video him one day, then show it to him when he's sober. He might not realise how bad he is when he's drunk.

dittany, your mother may have bought into the idea that contact at any price was the best thing for the children. This is an idea which has been around for quite some time now, that children have a right to have contact with their absent father however crap that father is. (It's not one I agree with btw, just saying that it is the standard default position of most people now, including courts.)

dittany - thanks, I wanted to hear all the points of view about this. I promise I'm not trying to make it up to XP by making DS see him, if anything it would make my life much easier to just bugger off somewhere else and leave him to rot. He's not so awful I don't want anything to do with him or I would have done just that myself; I will try to do whatever is best for DS. They've both just come in so I've got to go.

"AttilaTheMeerkat I meant more in terms of whether the pattern had changed so I would know whether he was OK with DS - not in terms of checking on him as it's up to him whether he drinks himself to death - but it's up to me to make sure that DS is safe if I'm letting him spend time with his dad. Is that enabling, have I got the wrong end of the sitck?"

You were initially writing about living next door to this man. The pattern that your ex partner has gotten himself into will likely not change unless he himself wants to make changes. If you want your son to spend time with his Dad (and I have to say currently that this is not a good idea at all as he is still drinking) he will have to make an effort to change. He is currently showing no signs of changing or even wanting help. You certainly can't help him. Perhaps he will need to lose everything dear to him in order to change but there are no guarantees here as he may still continue drinking.

Enabling is covering up for the alcoholic's behaviour by enabling them not to see the consequences of their actions. Al-anon do some good material on alcoholism and family members. I suggest you contact them asap and read what they have also.

He may love your son but he currently loves alcohol more.

gncfto if it helps I'll tell you my experience: I split up with my non-violent drunk xp when DS was 2 (he's now 8). I was pregnant with DD at the time, who is now 6. There has been no contact (except of the christmas card/ birthday phone call variety) as we live at least 200 miles apart and xp hasn't asked for any. Like yours, I suspect that deep down he knows he's incapable of looking after the children, so doesn't press the issue.

Both children express a wish to see their father and ask why we don't live together, what he's like, etc. etc. Part of me is relieved he doesn't bother to have contact because I would have to fight him in court (he still hasn't admitted he's an alcoholic, which in itself shows he's still a danger to them) and part of me wishes that he'd make more of an effort to know them so that they didn't need to be curious.

I don't know what the solution is. All I can say is that the fact that they don't have their father in their life has left them with a hunger to know him and on my DS's part, a sadness at not knowing him. OTOH, I know that sending them to see him is simply not an option as they would be in physical danger and even when they are older, it is emotionally bad for them to be in the care of someone drunk. I'd be unwilling to send them to his, unless he had faced up to his alcoholism and sought help for it. A court however, would probably disagree with me.

Oh by the way, his drinking got much worse after we'd split (something for you to consider may happen with your xp). It's like he no longer had any need to control it for a while. I don't know what it's like now as he obviously doesn't volunteer that information.

I hope some of that might be of some use to you.

Haven't read all this but my experience is that dad was a severe drinker and alcoholic most of my childhood, however he managed to give up when I hit my 20's and since then, has been the best Dad and Grandad I could ever imagine.

I personally wouldn't cur contact but keep 9t sueprvised, iyswim? EVERYONE has the potential to change, even those who seem most likely (Dad was a miracle: 2 brotehrs died from cirrhosis, plus his Dad and Grandma!).