How to tell the difference between someone having hard time & someone ghosting you?

[dottieautie]

How do you tell the difference between someone platonic who is ghosting you and someone who is having a hard time and would like a very occasional (eg once a month text message) check in? (As is so often mentioned on MN)

I’d been led to believe this person was my friend and the latter (from their own messages and responses) but they’ve just called me up out of the blue and called me all manner of toxic and creepy saying that we’re not friends and never were.

I’m confused & autistic and don’t understand the rules. They’re NT.

Well it sounds very strange but I would take it at face value. They've said they don't want to hear from you so don't contact them again.

How do you mean 'you were led to believe you were friends'? As in how long have you known each other, have you ever seen each other regularly and when did things tail off? 'Toxic' would usually refer to bad behaviour rather than just not getting the hint. Are they saying you've specifically done something wrong? Is there a chance you could have done it if so, perhaps unintentionally?

I had a friend once who I didnt know if she wanted to get rid of me but barley replied and eventually said that her anxiety was off the scale talking to me and that she needed space.

I took her word for it and kept positive but had no expectations.

2 years later she reached out. She said that becuase I was so happy and positive with my life it made her feel bad and anxious about hers but she was better now. We have remained friends and chat often.

Your friend has been a bit mean and you deserve better. I would close this door and move on with little ill feeling. If she chooses to open that door int he future and you want to forgive her theres always that option

Well that is not ghosting and I have no idea if they are having a hard time or not. I have no idea what made them make this phone call but they obviously do not want to be friends. So just forget about them and don’t contact them again.

What happened to instigate their phone call? Were you messaging them a lot without reply?

It’s difficult to say without context. But they haven’t ghosted you (that’s when someone blocks and ignores), they’ve told you very clearly and strongly that they don’t want you to contact them again.

I blocked them on everything. I won’t be spoken to the way they did. They wanted to use me as a punchbag and I wasn’t for taking it.

We worked together and in terms of socialising we would go out for lunch/coffee and occasionally after work so not best friends just work friends who would hang out maybe once or twice a week and message every so often out of work but never serious stuff. They were for a while always in my office pouring out their woes and gossiping and Im not good at either, so I just listened and nodded at the right time. After Xmas they started distancing themselves and so I didn’t chase them up or message that often but I knew they were struggling so didn’t ignore them completely. My question is a generic how do you know when it’s ghosting and when it’s someone who wants checked. In on because things are falling apart? I do not care to be friendly with this person but I don’t want to be confronted by the same issue again.

They were aware I struggle socially and I explained at the first time we went for lunch I sometimes get social things a bit wrong but am never meaning anything malicious by it and just to let me know at the time. I was never blunt or rude. I’m old enough and experienced enough to know where the lines are.

I do not care for any kind of relationship with this person. We do not work directly with one another and I’m mature enough to say a polite hello and get on with my day if we bump into one another. They clearly wanted to hurt me with what they were saying to me and that’s their problem but I want to know how someone is supposed to know what the non verbal lack of contact is about? Hope does one know if it is being ghosted or if it’s someone with mental health issues struggling and withdrawing?

I have no idea. It literally came out of the blue. I wasn’t messaging a lot without reply. I only message once every so often usually with a meme or something and they’d do similar.

Look at the core of their message - they don’t want to be in contact with you. It doesn’t matter how to call what happened between you ghosting or struggling or something else. For whatever reason they don’t want to be friends. I would stay polite at the work place but nothing more. I wouldn’t talk about anything beyond work and only if it’s necessary.

Regarding the difference : if someone is struggling they react differently when you’ve reached them out first time. They would mention their problems at least in a lesser way. It’s my opinion.

i Get your question but it is complicated.

I have work friends I love working with but would not got a lot in common than our job so if I left I doubt I would see them again .

I worked with someone I got on really well with but could be vile to other people , after she left - I think I took time to realise that actually someone who behaved that way would be not someone I spent time with out of choice.

That said the woman in your original post I would say that’s a her issue she , not yours , unfortunately the risk of friendship is the fact the more you know someone they may not be all you deserve

I’m absolutely fine with not having contact but I’m worried now that I have read something wrong and for future I’d like to be able to tell.

I read so often on here about how you should reach out to friends who suddenly withdraw from friendship (using that as the simplest descriptor for a friendly relationship not BFFs) in case they’re having a hard time and can’t ask for support and I’ve had friends get upset when others have essentially cut them out when they have a hard time and have withdrawn. It’s knowing when someone is actively ghosting you (a block is clearly an easy way of telling but that doesn’t always seem to happen) and when someone is having a hard time in life and needs space but wants the odd check in.

it’s like we cannot win whatever we do. This may be instinctive to neurotypical people but it’s not for autistic people. My own circumstances here are somewhat irrelevant and shared for background only. The question could stand alone without. The details. Writing articulate isn’t my strong point

At the moment I’m ghosting an old school friend ( for various reasons, I don’t want to go into it here): she sent me an email on Xmas and on my birthday few months ago and I didn’t reply. I’m not going to.

From the other side my another friend wasn’t answering my txt for about 3 weeks, I’ve sent her another and offered meet up she said that this week was not good as she was still not well after Covid and she was waiting for her child’s hospital appointment as their illness became worse. So obviously she wasn’t answering my txt as she had a lot of things on her plate, she wasn’t ghosting me.

I don’t think in your case there was ghosting or struggling, it’s more like your colleague was not a pleasant person. Of course they MIGHT have a mental health issue but you are not a health professional so nothing to do with you.

OP, you ask a very valid question and I can see why you are concerned. It is a really tough question. This sort of thing worries me too. I think there isn’t a clear answer. I can only tell you my experience.

It is tough because sometimes people begin by withdrawing for mental health reasons and then feel they don’t want to resume relations again so go full on ghost.

In my experience someone who cares about you will give a very natural verbal indication that they are having problems. I know there’s always the danger that a friend is so afflicted they keep their problems 100% secret, but I think that’s not common. More often than not people will say things that indicate they are not feeling great. Or at the very least they will give you some small responses.

Someone who is tolerating you but is too “nice” to be direct about it will say things that sound phony or like someone has been advising them. e.g. My phone is broken, I’m very busy at work etc …

Sadly, there are people who will go out of their way to be nice to others but then when they are feeling rough they lose energy for it because being nice was about them and not about actually feeling a bond with you. So in a case like that, they are having a hard time but they are also ghosting.

Unfortunately, I think we have to be a little bit hard hearted. Unless they are so severely unwell that they are incapable of communication, everyone is capable of giving a friend some indication that they still want to know them.

When I feel rough, I don’t want to lose my friends so I certainly won’t ignore them when they text me. But the people I didn’t really ever have much of a friendship with in the first place, I don’t go out of my way to keep in touch with them.

Thank you for your very thorough response. That’s a really good guide.

Well I suppose a true ghoster will just not reply or will make poor excuses if they see you, say at work. This could be about being vaguely busy, for instance.

Someone needing to withdraw for a bit but who still cares will be more likely to respond with a substantive update even if that's just 'sorry I've been crap at replying, still not feeling great especially since XYZ has been happening. Hope you're well though'. You could then make sure they know you're there and offer to check in from time to time.

I think look more at the reciprocity of the whole relationship/ conversation overall though. It looks like there were signs the person mentioned in OP was just interested in someone to moan/ bitch/ outpour to rather than a real friend. People like that don't always have nasty intentions- in fact I work with one who is quite nice but only ever interested in talking about herself-but they're not friends. A real friend would always want to know about you as well. If someone doesn't seem that interested in you, then goes quiet then you can probably feel ok about leaving it in their court.

I have sort of ghosted a friend once before (not actually ghosted, but disengaged from the friendship as I didn’t want it anymore); and I have also gone quiet on another friend when having mild PND.

In the first instance, I would reply to her messages but take a bit longer and my replies would be blandly polite, dodging opportunities to meet up.

In the latter, while I wasn’t instigating any messages, I would joke about how hard it all was, or imply I was struggling.

So the difference is: when I wasn’t keen, I was polite but gave nothing personal away and never agreed to make plans. But when I was quiet with another friend but also going through some shit, I was giving personal details away and engaging in more meaningful conversations, albeit a bit more sparsely than usual.

Does that help at all?

Basically: if someone is done, they barely reply, reply late, and never make plans or divulge anything personal (or completely ghost). And if someone is struggling, they give you hints of their personal circumstances (“the baby cries all the time!” Etc. I wouldn’t have said those things to friend I wanted to politely cut out) and do agree to meet up.

The woman in your story sounds awful, OP. I’d give her a very wide berth forever. I would struggle to even be polite to her, tbh.

I read a poster on here not long ago who was analysing every message they got and was ND and couldn’t read between what their ‘friend’ was replying - they typed out messages on here and literally hundreds of posts basically saying to leave her alone by the thread starter couldn’t see it. You might have missed something - you might not. But the response is fatal and final - don’t reach out, don’t ever contact them again . Move on.

They sound like a bully. I wouldn't read anything into it. It's not you it's them.

Can I ask why you didn’t just say ‘I dont want to hang out’ rather than hoping they’d get the message? I’m not sure it is beiNg kind to avoid the elephant in the room

I usually check with my partner about texts etc if I’m unsure of their meaning. He would tell me if there was a hidden message I wasn’t getting or if I was being odd in my messages. I have sent the last few messages to a friend who says this person is being an arsehole. I have no intentions of bothering with them again.

Because telling someone you don't want to hang out is often seen as a slap in the face, a "you're not good enough for me" and can result in hurt feelings and a diatribe. So it's easier to just let things slide, and then you can be polite and friendly if you ever see each other at social occasions.

Because lots of friendships slide as your life direction changes. It doesn't mean that they're not nice people, just that for whatever reason their friendship doesn't work in your life at that point in time.

"Friends for a reason, friends for a season, friends for a lifetime".

You don't really know if someone in category 1 or 2 will move to category 3. Why antagonise someone by being rudely blunt?

I’m not a confrontational person unless I really have to be - and she definitely wasn’t a confrontational person. It would have devastated her, to be honest. I decided gradually disengaging was the kinder way. Maybe I was wrong. But I honestly don’t think she would have coped well with hearing “I don’t want to be friends anymore”.

Yes agree with this. In my example above, I didn’t want to upset that seasonal friend, I was just done with the friendship for various reasons.

Bless you op, it sounds like it must have been a chore for you dissecting social niceties being ND. NT people just don't always understand how some ND people don't just instinctively get it but you've had some kind and helpful responses on here.

I have ADHD and I think I found it harder to navigate when I was younger. I've foubd it easier as I got older. The one thing I still get wrong sometimes is talking too much and odd time interrupting. I don't mean to and I always apologise. I've learned by the look in the eye they give you that someone has started to zone out.

I prefer to deal with people that are straight forward and not game playing. It helps so much more and doesn't cause me to be anxious with mental gymnastics.

The friends I have now are kind, courteous and I get back what I put out. If someone makes you feel bad, just step away from them.

Good luck to you!

If you're unsure in future, I would send a message along the lines of:
I know you're having a tough time so I'm not going to plague you with messages. Just wanted to let you know I'm here and thinking of you, so I'll leave you to get in touch when you're ready.