Pathological liars - how do they live with themselves?

[Icecreamfriday]

I'm absolutely sick to death of the ex husband and his endless lies. When we got divorced, I was shocked by the things I found out and that he'd hidden.
Several years on, he has now married the OW and had kids. One could say that he is settled, yet everything that comes out of his mouth his still an utter lie. He never invites our kids to his house and makes the most pathetic excuses instead of just giving them a truthful reason.
How do these kind of people sleep at night with their constant bullshitting. I cannot fathom why he does it?

It becomes second nature to them and they forget what it’s like not to be a liar.

Despite it being easier to tell the truth? I find it totally bizarre.

I did a little course for work once on fraudsters. It explains that most people don't want to see themselves as in the wrong so they will find a way to justify their actions. I should think the same is the case with people who lie in relationships. They will find a way to justify what they do and really believe that they did nothing wrong or at least that their behaviour was understandable in the circumstances.

He's different from you. You'll never understand, don't waste your time trying. People might wonder how you can live with yourself when you eat meat, or because you had 3 children, or because you walked away from a friendship. You have your reasons, and nobody else has to understand, because it's not about them. Your exes behaviour is not about you, and he's not going to feel it in the same way as you.

Would you expect him to be emotionally similar to you in other ways?

I am convinced DP is a narcissist and so he would justify any lies along the lines of, be had to lie to get what he deserves. Eg Every business trip he goes to a Michelin-starred restaurant by himself and puts in an expense claim saying he took others out for dinner (this making the cost per person reasonable). In his eyes, he is fully deserving of life's luxuries so he'll lie if he has to so he gets them.

My MIL honestly doesn't know the difference between the truth and a lie. She's quite timid and I think it comes from her early life. She also married someone quite controlling. She just tells people what she thinks they want to hear and gets her self tied in knots

yeah my ex was really convincing. What I found out after we split up was unreal. I don´t even think I knew who he was as he lied so much. No idea why he did it, but when pulled up on it with proof he would still lie.

I feel for your kids and you. But forcing someone to be in your kids life regardless of his inability to be truthful, I dont know, leave that to him, its not your job to chase him for contact. That is on him.

Because generally it’s not easier to tell the truth. Liars lie because the consequences of the lie, if believed, are easier to deal with than the consequences of telling the truth.

When I saw the thread title I said, ‘that’s honestly a great question’ out loud.

I then read the OP and saw that this was the first conment. I really believe this is what’s it for so many people. I think so many of them don’t even second guess lying. It’s almost as if it’s not a conscious decision because they lie automatically.

It’s insane when you really sit down and think about it. My kids dad is like that, makes me sick

My exh was a very convincing liar. Rewrote history to the dc he abused with neglect and violence.. So much so when he died suddenly they got DAD tattoos as if he was some sort of fucking saint.. Dread the day the memories start coming back..

By lying to themselves

Those of us who are not habitual liars tend to find it almost impossible to get to grips with what motivates those who are. Statistically the majority of lies are told by a small number of people. What I find most difficult is that often the lies aren't internally consistent and the liar doesn't seem to think this matters.

My ex believes his lies. I know he sleeps very well at night, untroubled by his appalling behaviour, huge debts and personal failings.

He believes he is a great man, a great father, a great husband.

He believes his violence and abuse is exaggerated and that he is either provoked or that the dcs and I are lying.

He is also very convincing. Everyone who first meets him is charmed by him.

I’m no expert but my view is that they genuinely believe their own lies even if things didn’t happen/ happen in a completely different way and have various witnesses… it’s just how they perceive the world with them being the victim (usually) and everyone conspiring against them…

They also get very very angry when the truth is forced out into the open.

You will see all sorts of mental gymnastics and lashing out.

It's pitiful if it weren't so frightening at times.

Some great responses here. I find it most disappointing that he lies to his own children.

They live with themselves very easily because in their minds they aren't liars. It's everyone else who has issues.

My sister in law will lie about the tiniest insignificant details. Like whether it was porridge or weetabix she ate for breakfast. I don’t think she has a core self, she is a collection of snippets she’s picked up from other people about how a person should be. Has no one likes or dislikes. No opinions or unique thought. She’s a rag doll of other peoples personalities really.

And so I think she gives the answer she thinks you want. Not what is the truth.

I think some people with these traits actually believe their lies, and create a little fantasy world around themselves that makes them feel good, and present well to others. It is only those who are close to them that realise. I know she is quite a jealous, nasty vindictive person because of some of the things she has done to others. My neighbour is a fantasist, but for people who only know her casually she would appear as a confident, professional woman who has a grand plan for her life. In reality, she is a deluded fool in lots of debt, and trapped in a bad marriage who has no resources to change her life, or motivation. Every time we meet she is telling me of her next big project. It could be building an extension, buying a hotel, travelling to exotic places, getting a job etc. Then she does none of the things she declares, and carries on as if she never said any of it. She even forgets her lies and makes new versions to replace the old one's. It is very odd, and must be very destructive and frustrating for her family to deal with. I believe it is rooted in deep insecurity (otherwise why brag?), a jealousy of others (she was disappointed to find I had planning permission for work on my house, or else she would have reported me) and a sense of ideal self linked to money, education, popularity and idolisation by others.

@Icecreamfriday of course he lies to his children. He has to maintain the façade.

Another factor is the law of diminishing returns. If you do something you know to be wrong for the first time, you might have to wrestle with your conscience. The second time you do it, the moral struggle is considerably easier, and when you do it for the hundredth time, you probably don’t even give the slightest thought to its being wrong. So for someone for whom lying is completely ingrained, it barely occurs to them (if indeed at all) that they’re doing anything wrong, so they won’t be losing much sleep over it.

Because they actually believe their own lies. You can't argue with them or even show them in black and white, irrefutably that they have lied, because they 100% believe that the bull shit they have come out with is the truth. You can't argue with crazy as the saying goes-it's a waste of time trying.
DH's ex wife sends us a regular email listing all the things she says we have done wrong and all the things she has done right and we just cut and paste the bits from her own previous emails that prove the opposite is true-with a 'please read your own previous emails that show that what you are saying is not the case' message and send. And we only do that as we've no doubt at some point soon she will threaten to take us back to court because we have lost a child's sock or whatever else she feels is evidence that we are abusers-and it's just easier to have it as evidence in that way.
Just laugh at it privately, disengage and do whatever is best for you and your kids.