When is enough, really enough?

[InTheEther842]

Sorry this is a long one. For context, I've been with my husband 16 years, married 10 and have 2 children. He is a functioning alcoholic. He denies that he is, but he's always been a heavy social drinker and since the pubs reopened post COVID he has started drinking more and more to the extent that over the last 18 months or so he's started hiding it. It came to a head last November when I caught him out lying about going out again. He has been going to the pub straight from work before heading home for 5.30-6 or saying he'll be back at 7 and coming in at 11 and my issue with it (apart from all the health and money concerns) is that I don't think he has control and on a weekday he should be picking the kids up if he's back from work before me especially as I've taken a step up at work more recently. I think he palms off the childcare like it's not his responsibility. Our friends have questioned if he's depressed and I've had that conversation with him and he thinks he may be but the doctors apparently wouldn't give him anything to help. To explain why I'm so concerned about this - he's had a number of really heavy drink related falls, he's fallen out with someone at work (and he's always the easy going person) his face is really scabby and blotchy, he's seriously overweight, he's struggling with gout and pain and he's increasingly getting angry, particularly after a heavy session, like on a weekend. He'd also picked up our son after being in the pub for a couple of hours which I didn't realise until after. He says he's talked to the doctors and they have apparently told him that they don't think he is an alcoholic because he doesn't feel the need to drink in the morning. After things came to a head in November and I'd explained I can't watch him live like this, he threatened to kill himself if I left and he told his parents that he had a problem. His mum rounded on me after saying 'he just likes a drink' and they always have a beer ready for him when he goes round so there's no support there.

Fast forward to now, we've had a rocky few months. He controls all our finances ( I know, I know) and as part of this I've been taking more control back, and found that he'd taken money from the kids saving account and racked up a load of debt - which I've since sorted out. He gambles but swears it's only small amounts but again I don't have that trust he's telling me the truth and he can't explain the debt. I get really anxious with him coming back in after heavy drinking because whilst he never gets physical, he can get really nasty and the only thing I can do is get him into bed without the kids seeing or upsetting him accidentally. When I haven't managed that, he's actually told the kids things like 'mummy doesn't love me' or 'noone loves me' which he accepts when he's sober that he mustn't do. This weekend we went to a BBQ with friends and I thought he might have been drinking before, but within an hour of being there he was laid up against the garden fence half unconscious. The kids also keep asking where dad is if he goes out and on Friday he'd said at 7pm he 'wouldn't be long' and it was gone 11 before he came in.

On top of this, over the last 5 years his sex drive has disappeared and he can't maintain an erection (he's 45). I've had a rough time with it because in the beginning he was saying to me we needed to spice things up, or I'd put on weight, or I didn't make the effort etc. So I lost weight, did all of those things and now he's at a point where we can't talk about it at all because it creates pressure for him.

I don't know what to do. I've spoken to him seriously about this when he's been sober and he always says he knows he needs to cut down but he's adamant it's cut down not stop. I've said to him before that if it's me and or the kids making him unhappy we can divorce and I'll be fair and we'll put the kids first etc but he always says he'll die without me. My fear is that it could turn very nasty.

Plus, he was actually a really good man before the alcohol has taken a hold. I'll always love him as the kids dad. I just don't think I can live with him and watch him kill himself like this - and it can't be good for the kids to see it.

But I feel like in order for me to get away from it, I'd have to give up seeing my children half of the time and I worry he'd just leave them with his parents anyway - his drinking would go one of two ways wouldn't it?

He won't join AA. Again he apparently rang a helpline and they told him he wasn't dependent as he could go without (but he isn't!). And to be honest I don't know if I believe him anymore. I've lost that trust in him.

My only other option is to take the kids 100% and let him see them when he's sober. But he's a great dad when he's sober and I don't want to hurt him or control him. His family, who help out with childcare and lifts to clubs etc. and who were very close with wouldn't take it well at all.

He wouldn't leave the house. I'd have to go but there's an extra room I can move into for the time being - but don't know if that will make things worse. Or he might get better for a bit, but slip back, he always does.

I earn enough to look after me and the kids without his contribution (as long as I stay employed) so I have that thankfully, but he wouldn't be able to keep the house on his own without some help from his parents.

So - I'd really appreciate views please. Is enough, enough, and what would you do?

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest.

How old are the children?

He is an alcoholic and in denial. Unless he gets help he will die a premature death. Does he drive whilst hungover?

Alcoholics lie and are selfish...his threat of suicide is emotional manipulation and it is his responsibility to his children to be well.

For your children's sake I would leave ASAP. Can you get support from Alcoholic family charities?

Only you can ultimately make that decision.

Read your OP, @InTheEther842, and read it as if someone else posted it.

What would you advise that desperate woman to do?

I don’t know how old your children are, but they would be my first and only responsibility. Then I would protect myself.

If someone else was writing this, what would your own counsel be?.

Mine is as follows.

Enough is enough. Divorce your alcoholic gambling man ansap and rebuild your life with your children. You’re as caught up in his alcoholism as much as he is, what are you getting out of this relationship now?.

What you’ve tried to date has not worked and all you’re doing now is further enabling him. You’re in addition playing out the usual roles associated with such spouses such as codependent partner and provoker (because you never forget).

Alcoholism is not called the family disease without good reason and your children are also affected by this markedly, the effects of all this may not become fully apparent until they reach adulthood. Did you grow up seeing a heavily drinking parent yourself?.

Do you also think that such a man would want his children 50 percent of the week?. I very much doubt it also because they would further interfere with his drinking time and employment. He may well demand this but this is also said as a way of avoiding paying maintenance. Women in poor relationships too write the good dad comment when they can think of nothing else positive to write about their man. And when is he ever sober anyway, the man is always on a comedown from alcohol.

Do you think your kids believe their father is a good dad to them, none of their friends fathers end up laid up against the garden fence at bbqs do they?. They are likely feeling shame and embarrassment towards him as well as their own selves. How many more family occasions is he going to ruin or has ruined already with you trying and failing to cover up for him and otherwise firefighting the next risks that he causes through drink?

You have a choice re this man, they do not. Make better choices for you and your children than the ones you have made up till now. Seek legal advice and contact Al-anon for your own self, you will meet other ordinary people just like yourself at those meetings. At the very least read their literature.

The house can be sold, it is but bricks and mortar after all. And I would think the house is full of many bad memories. Make a fresh start for yourself and your kids, they will thank you for doing so and getting them out of this dysfunctional mess.

You also do not want to end up being his carer either particularly when his alcoholism further starts to impact his organs. You’re seeing some of this already in him. And he’s lied openly to you what the doctors have told him, they’ve said no such thing to him. He must think you were born yesterday if you believed that. Denial is a powerful force and he is mired in denial like so many alcoholics. His parents basically enable him too, they cannot be relied upon at all.

The definition of an alcoholic is not about drinking in the morning. He's an alcoholic. For your sake and the children, please get away from him. They will be forever increasingly damaged the longer you stay with him. Start to immediately put steps in place to divorce and separate your finances before he totally wrecks that side of things too. Go grey rock with his parents and do not be held to ransom over his threats to kill himself. To answer your original question though of when is enough enough.....it was quite some time ago for you. Don't waste another moment.

I think you know already

I've been there but I had to put my child first.

Sadly this is very solid advice. You are with him currently and he is drinking, evidently you cannot 'save' him by remaining in the relationship & maintaining this lifestyle , inevitably it will also be taking a massive toll on you. If you leave and his drinking increases this is not your fault or a result of your actions, he chooses to drink and to prioritise alcohol over everything & everyone.

I think you referenced a potential gambling habit too which no doubt he is playing down.These are huge issues & from personal experience need professional input from a variety of specialisms and a huge amount of effort & the will to change. If he hits rock bottom so be it , maybe he needs to. With the best will in the world you are enabling his drinking & behaviours, prioritise yourself & the children
( who will definitely be aware of their dads problem) . If you feel helpless maybe direct him or enlist a trusted friend to direct him towards professional help but be firm & have solid boundaries. If he can get well he stands half a chance of being the dad your children deserve but I would not recommend putting them through this as things stand.

Your husband is an alcoholic. No child of an alcoholic parent is ever unharmed by it.

Sweet jesus, girl you need to run. I'm sure more experienced MNs will be on to help u but u really don't have to live like that, or your DCs. U deserve better and dont forget it. Practically yes it will be a shit show no doubt but there is a better life for you, try to find the courage to take the next step

He's lying to you that he has been to the doctors and AA as they don't say stuff like that. He's probably lying to himself. It's a really hard nut to crack but he can do it if he is willing to and with your support. I'd be inclined to give him an ultimatum that he first of all goes to the GP with you (so he can't pretend he's been) and AA on his own and makes a serious effort or you will end the marriage. Otherwise, I'd leave with the kids, or ask him to leave, whatever works for you. I would set a time limit. You can go to Al-Anon, which is for the family of alcoholics. I don't know what they are like or if it helps but you do need to put yourself and the kids first. Good luck.

They have no choice at the moment but you do, you can choose to protect them and show them what good healthy boundaries look like.

What a shit show, your poor kids.

He is abusive. Speak to WA and get a non molestation order and occupation order and get him out.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice. I'm literally shaking reading through it all. My primary concern is what the kids are now seeing and that's what's driving me to do something. It's really difficult to make that call but the only person who can help him is himself. It's just really awful it's come to this.

I'm so sorry OP, it sounds absolutely horrendous for you and the kids. Completely agree with everyone else that he is an alcoholic, and has been lying to you about what the doctor and AA said to him.

This is no life for you or the children. Sending you every bit of luck and strength. I think your lives will become much more peaceful without him around on a daily basis x

He’s either lied to GP or lied to you about going to the GP. He’ll be lying about other things too. For an alcoholic, the important thing is always the next drink.

Hey op, exactly the same situation as you unfortunately. Its shit. All weekend mines sat watching sport with a beer in hand whilst being shouty. I am making changes. I will give the kids a better life. You can too💐

My dgf was an alcoholic, he died when I was 2.
His alcoholism still affected my whole life though because my dm had been harmed by living with her df and was not the parent she could have been.
Look up adult child of an alcoholic.
Alcoholics wreck the lives of everyone around them.

Hi there, I'm the daughter of an alcoholic and attended some of their open meetings. They welcome anyone who wants to attend.

The worst thing about loving a person with a drink problem is that you could give up your whole life for them and it doesn't make a difference. They have to want to change.

I wouldn't get stuck on terms like alcoholic. Talk about behaviours.

Alcoholics recover with the serenity prayer - look it up its useful for you too. Good luck and courage x

You know the answer the affect on your children will be huge. Ultimatum as last resort rehab now or I leave? Or leave anyway. What does your gut say?

I was you. It was horrific. Watching someone you love kill themselves slowly by alcohol is incredibly painful. I was an emotional wreck whilst trying to look after 2 young kids, a house and hold down a pretty stressful job.
Like you, I feared family events, holidays, Christmas... anytime where his drinking may get worse. Even when he was sober he was not pleasant to live with as mostly hungover.
And just like your husband, mine said he'd been to the GP and his drinking wasn't an issue. The issue was me apparently and our martial issues. The fact that the majority of them were created through his drinking clearly didn't resonate. He went to AA and said it wasn't for him because he's not an alcoholic. He always maintains he can stop because he can go for days/ weeks without drinking. The problem was that he couldn't stop once he started. He was perfectly fine not to start.
I filed for divorce in April last year. Best decision I made. He moved out a few months after I filed and life couldn't be better. The atmosphere at home immediately lightened and I could tell the kids were no longer on edge (and they were still quite young at the time).

The kids now see their dad every other weekend and largely he's been able to stay sober for those, but had to cancel a few weekends because he was drinking. He knows that I'll stop them from going if he as much as touches a drop while they are with him.

You can't control his drinking. He needs to want to stop. And while you're with him, he has no reason to stop as you're always there to pick up the pieces after him. Leave for your kids sake and yours. You'll all be happier. Your h may stop drinking, but prepare yourself for things getting worse. There is support for families of alcoholics. I found it invaluable to speak to others in the same situation.
Good luck. You can do this.