Husband's estranged Mother suddenly interested in his life now I am pregnant with our first child

[Nic1210]

My husband decided to cut contact with his Mother last year due to the emotional and sometimes physical abuse he has suffered his entire life. There are too many instances to count. Here are a few examples...

• When he was a child he was slapped around the head pretty much daily, one occasion kicked in the ribs.
• Was called a liar when he had a lung infection and was admitted to hospital later than he should have been.
• She threw away his passport and trashed his room when he did not clean the house because he was attending college that day (was an expectation for him to do jobs around the house, including washing his mums clothes first before he could wash his own).
• Made him leave the house for a couple nights where he had to sleep on the street after she got into an argument and threw a mug at him. She was worried he would retaliate (even though my husband is a gentle giant and was scared of her).

He moved away when he went to uni and could finally get independence. Since then, he had only seen her once or twice a year. The mind games never changed, the final straw came when he ran a Half Marathon for Dementia UK in memory of his Gran (her mother) and she refused to donate a penny, never wished him luck and made him feel ashamed for even contemplating running it. Part of me thinks he ran it to make her proud, which is upsetting.

For me personally, I have never felt welcome in her presence, tried to be polite but have felt her wrath a couple of times. But mainly just nasty off-hand comments. I am past caring about how I am treated. Just care about my Hubby.

To cut to the chase, the last contact my husband had with her was a out of the blue drunken text threating to cut him out of the will, not that he cares about that. This was before we told anybody I was pregnant.
I am now 19 weeks along, his sister has told his mum (which is fine) and we suddenly got an anniversary card and chocolates (late) through the post the other day saying "happy anniversary and congrats on the bundle of joy".

Personally, this is messing with my head and I have no guage as to whether this woman should have any contact once the baby is born, my head says "no fucking way" but my conscience and heart is "we are preventing a woman from seeing her grandchild/our child knowing their grandmother".
Honestly, I would allow her to see out child once or twice a year supervised. But my husband does not want anything to do with her or come to a resolution. She is blocked from both our phones. It would be easier if she just went away but just feels like my husband and I are burying our heads in the sand.

Sorry for the long post, just a lot to get out! What are people's thoughts on this?

She sounds like she has some sort of mental illness
It’s not normal and people who behave like that I generally mentally unwell however, that does not absolve her of her behaviou
It’s your husband is Mum, not yours and the decision should be down to him
u could let her meet the grandchild supervised briefly, but that’s it
if he doesn’t want her around, then, just keep it that way

@Banana1979 agree she has mental health problems.

Hi OP. I’m estranged from my entire family for similar reasons, and I honestly wouldn’t want my child to have anything to do with their grandmother/grandfather on my side. Your mum-in-laws toxic traits are only going to rub off - and possibly be projected - on your baby. The mind games won’t stop. Having no grandmother is much better than having a dysfunctional one. Keep her well away.

Children don’t miss what they don’t know. My dh was brought up by his grandparents and had very little to do with his mother unless he could be useful (looking after his half siblings as a teen). We’ve had no contact for nearly 20 years our children don’t even know she exists.
Id let your husband take the lead on this, but I’d be inclined for no contact.

Absolutely not. No way would I let a physically and emotionally abusive woman have contact with my child. A few saccharine words on a card mean absolutely nothing. Actions speak louder than words and if she is genuinely remorseful and caring she'd apologise to your husband for her treatment of him and would change her behaviour/seek therapy.

She is not going to change now- abusers generally dont. The words are being used to manipulate you both into coming back. Thats all they represent. Dont ascribe more meaning to them than that. You arent "preventing a grandma from seeing her grandchild", you are "preventing an abuser from abusing yet another child who has a right to grow up in an environment where they arent belittled, physically attacked and made to feel like garbage".

Your child only has you and your H to protect them from this. Dont let this cycle continue to ruin another childhood.

If your husband wants nothing more to do with her I would go with that.
We have a similar issue in our wider family. We made the mistake of letting the toxic back into our lives when we had our baby. It was a big mistake. MIL was very spiteful and manipulative and would pull the same crap on our kids if she didn’t get her own way. Because we let her back into our lives and then pushed her back out when we realised she hadn’t changed she got even worse. She spreads lies about us and plays the victim card.
Dont make our mistake, keep her out of your lives.

Please please keep your baby away from this abusive and toxic woman. Your poor DH having to be abused through his childhood.

Your husband has been through a lot and wants to protect your child. There are a lot of threads on MN about men who are unable to draw boundaries with interfering or abusive parents, with disastrous results. I would be strongly inclined to support him and follow his lead. The decision can be changed down the line if he wishes.

It’s for your husband to decide if he wants any relationship with his mum and you should support him in that. I have no relationship with my mum and if my Dh went behind my back to facilitate a relationship with her for our children, I’d divorce him. It’s a no brainer. Your child will have the best possible life by having a dad who is healthy and well and able to parent without constantly reliving his childhood trauma, and knowing he has a partner who has his back 100%. Trauma moves through the generations. You should be proud your Dh is the one strong enough to put an end to it.

Thanks for the responses. Definitely helps us know we are not going mad or being unreasonable. The manipulation just hits hard. We are so excited about starting our family, I think we always knew deep down she would not be a part of it. Just a tough pill to swallow.

This woman is an abuser. I know it’s difficult for you to understand what your husband went through (which is a good thing, those of us with horrendously toxic parents wouldn’t wish it on anyone) as a child but please don’t pull the “you only get one mum/parent” card. We don’t push people who have left abuse partners into contact with them, and I will never understand the thought that parents should be simply forgiven because they are a biological relative. Your husband does not want your baby to have contact for a good reason - because he won’t want his child to have issues with self loathing, low self worth, fear etc that he went through as a kid. Trust him to be able to make that decision because honestly it isn’t an easy one, and I say this with experience.

Also to reiterate, I would never go behind my husbands back and make sure he has the say on this, completely agree that the decision lies with him.
Just trying to get my head around this stuff as I have come from a complete opposite upbringing to him.

Also extremely proud of him building a content and stable life for himself away from her control

Its lovely that you are trying to be kind and inclusive. Sending chocolates and a card is just part of the abuse cycle though isnt it? Its like when abusive men hit their wives or partners and are then super nice to them and buy them presents to apologise, only for the violence to erupt later and the cycle to happen over and over and over again. Its so confusing for the victim because its the constant alternating between utter cruelty and then apologies and gifts. Psych studies have shown that inconsistent behaviours like that are exactly why its so hard to break free from abusive relationships- because the person isnt a "monster" 24/7 and you have seen evidence of times when they have been nice, so you constantly yearn for the nice periods. Its so messed up and it really is a mindfck.

"my head says "no fucking way" but my conscience and heart is "we are preventing a woman from seeing her grandchild/our child knowing their grandmother".

Listen to your head, NOT your heart here. Do you not think your H has already suffered enough at his abusive mother's hands?. Read the room. You are fortunate indeed to have come from an emotionally healthy non abusive environment, your H has not been so lucky. Your MIL knows this and has picked up on you being the weaker link here. I would read Toxic Inlaws by Susan Forward to further understand the dynamics.

If she is too toxic/difficult/batshit or abusive for you to deal with its the SAME deal for your child. What his mother is doing here is a behaviour called hoovering; its all calculated and designed to draw you back in. Gifts too should come with ribbons, not strings.

DO NOT let her see your child at all, forget all this once or twice a year supervised. Its a poor decision when it comes to abusive and otherwise toxic people who do not and will not ever play by the rules of familial engagement. Continue to protect yourself and your child from Bad Things like his mother. She has not changed in all the years your now H has known her and he has known her far longer than you have done. I read she is blocked on your phones; great, keep her blocked too.

Do not acknowledge any sent items and dispose of them as you see fit. They should not be given any more power than they already have. Such things get in your head; no headspace should be given to people like his mother.

My mother has never spent time with my kids and they are now young adults who haven't a clue what it's like growing up with an abusive person in their lives. NC is the only way to end the cycle of abuse and I did it with my kids. My kids honestly feel like they haven't lost anything. They'd obviously welcome normal grandparents in their life but that's just not possible. I know that some people believe that kids have a right to know their grandparents however awful but allowing contact until the child says no way is damaging the child to prove a point.

You won't be able to manage someone like your MIL. Your child will still be targeted for manipulation and overhear nasty stuff that she says and does. For example she could ask your child if she wants to sleep over at her house and make you look like the unreasonable one when you say no.

You would be absolutely mad to let this woman into your child's life. She will be a constant source of pain and upset. Sorry to be blunt but it's true. She hasn't changed, she won't change, this is just game playing to confuse you. Be prepared for her to step it up.

Is a personality disorder a me tal health condition? It can’t be medicated away and it can’t really successfully be treated in talk therapy—its not going to change. Her behavior is abusive and that is the way she likes it so even if your husband weakens you must stay strong and keep her away from your family.

OP, I think you are being a little naive in thinking that a card and some chocolates means she's going to morph into a appropriate grandparent. This is a woman who abused her own son for decades but has now sent a card so its ok?

I understand that its hard to conceptualise if you havent had an abusive childhood but look at the effect it has had on both you and your husband- why would a child be able to handle that kind of behaviour any better? You dont even like her and you barely see her so why on earth would you want your child to have to spend time with her?

I also dont understand the grandparent bit- children cant miss what they dont have and plenty of kids grow up just fine never knowing a grandparent who may have already passed away for example. I grew up never knowing one of my grandparents as he died before I was born and its literally never even crossed my mind to be upset about it. Sure, it would have been nice to know him but it didnt affect my childhood in any way at all. Its not the case that any abusive grandparent is better than none and I struggle to understand why you would think that. I really hope you dont do this- because if you do, be prepared for pain and distress for all of you.

Not even a chance would I let my child around her.

Once she gets a toehold in she will be asking for unsupervised access to babysit your child or have them for over night stays. It is going to be chaos, drama, and heart pulling. She abused her son there is nothing to say she won't snap and abuse your child. She was horrible to you so what is going to happen when she is horrible about you to your child, starts undermining you and your DH's parenting as she has no respect for you?

It is a classic abuse tactic to be nice to reel someone in so you can have another go at them later. In this case she is reeling you in to get access to your child. If she had contacted you out of the blue with some message like 'thinking of you let's talk' it might mean she is trying to make amends, this is just pure self interest on her part.

Well she's interested for her own ends which are abusive.

Don't let your child anywhere near her. These sort of people are always looking for new victims and cause distress. It makes them happy.

She sounds personality disordered; you can only fix this by staying away.

Once she gets a toehold in she will be asking for unsupervised access to babysit your child or have them for over night stays. It is going to be chaos, drama, and heart pulling. She abused her son there is nothing to say she won't snap and abuse your child. She was horrible to you so what is going to happen when she is horrible about you to your child, starts undermining you and your DH's parenting as she has no respect for you?

Yup- nailed it. First it will be snidey remarks about how you are feeding the baby and digs about how you're spoiling them and they sleep too much/too little/arent the right weight/ look funny/ I wasnt like that as a baby, etc Then, when older it will be "I'd love you to stay overnight but mummy wont let you, I dont think mummy likes me- I'm so lonely" etc etc It will be a never ending torrent of manipulation, put downs, lies and knife twisting.

You shouldnt even consider this.

These messages are all spot on. Even when I read back my original post, I know I am too lenient on my MIL.
Definitely makes me and my husband know that going no contact and keeping her blocked is the right option at present.

My paternal grand parents were both similar to your MIL.
My mum was convinced it was very important to still keep some sort of relation going on and encouraged my dad to carry in speaking to both his parents.

As a result, we all saw them very very occasionally (moving abroad also made it harder).
As a child, then a ten and a young adult I absolutely hated it!! The ‘oh it’s important for my dc to still see her grand parents’ meant meeting with people who didn’t care about me. Who could be nasty. You had to keep up appearances aka still be nice, polite and smiling even though they made me extremely uncomfortable. I stopped seeing them as soon as I could - but not Wo a cost to my dad (he also had the threats of not being in the will etc…).

Seriously, don’t even consider forcing a relationship between your dc and his gran in the ground she is family. She might be but if she is also nasty and abusive (like she was with your DH) etc… it’s not going to be a nice thing for your dc.

Plus your DH doesn’t want to see her. So really his choice should become prevailing there.

If listen to the "No fucking way!" head.

Do you want her doing any of that to your child?

Do you want your husband stuck in a continuing cycle of abuse with her?