What is normal in terms of respect in a relationship

[sunshine05]

Admittedly I'm writing this as I'm fuming re DH and how he's just talked to me. But it happens often in our relationship. I'm wondering what is normal and if I should be putting up with it!

He sometimes talks to me condescendingly, if say, for instance if I've done something wrong, or forgotten to do something. Sometimes he berates me in front of the kids. Or dismisses me. For example we were going out for dinner with the family and we were greeted outside the restaurant by the waitress who asked if we had a booking I started to say our friends are already there (inside the restaurant) ...and he cut me off impatiently and rudely then took over and talked to the waitress like I didn't have a clue what I was saying. I was so angry (and embarassed) I said to him don't talk to me like that in front of the children. (I'm not sure if they heard) but it was so demeaning.

He's not always like that but at times he talks down to me or says something disrespectfully. A couple of years back he did it in front of my family (my mum and brother) he basically had a go at me about not sharing pudding with him) and it was so embarassing.

I think maybe I've made my bed so to speak as I married the guy... but now we're 15 years into our marriage and I'm less prepared to put up with any shit! I've put a thread on here before about sometimes feeling like I should leave as I feel like I deserve someone who truly respects me etc, but other times everything is fine.

Additionally- I'm most worried about my 3 boys picking up on some of this and treating their future girlfriends or wives with less respect than they deserve!

Have you spoken to him bout how it makes you feel? What does he say? Why does he say he does it?

My husband isn't the type to cut in and talk over me if I've already started to take the lead. On the odd occasion this sort of thing wouldn't bother me (I can have a tendency to waffle whereas he'd prefer to get to the crux of the matter) but if you feel disrespected and don't like his tone with you, then it needs addressing.

Sadly, it seems to be normal for some. It shouldn't be though. People should treat one another with kindness, tolerance, good manners, politeness, courtesy and affection. Not treat them with contempt and insult or humiliate them in front of other people.

I bet he doesn't speak to his work colleagues like that, does he? Or his mates down the pub?

Call him out on it. Tell him never to speak to you like that again. That if he ever, ever berates you like that again, or talks down to you, let alone infront of his sons, you'll be leaving him.

If he doesn't sort his shit out, go. Best example you can set for your sons is to leave him and make it clear that you are doing so because women do not tolerate nastiness in relationships.

It might seem harsh but it sets them on a path to knowing that shit behaviour leaves a man single. If they see a man talking to his wife that way without consequence, they grow up thinking its normal. They may even grow up tolerating abuse from their future partners too.

Also, you haven't made your bed...its 2023, people can leave marriages. For literally any reason. But especially marriages to bullies.

Hello OP, it may not seem to be a big problem but it actually is. And we don't realize it at first sometimes or are just too shocked to respond.
I think that respect in marriage is THE MOST important thing. Signs of disrespect are huge warning signs of which way the relationship can evolve. Sometimes things can be turned around but you must act promptly, swiftly and with calm determination .

EACH AND EVERY time your DH does these horrible things like talking over you, interrupting you, being condescending etc, you must stop him, always remain calm and tell him this is not permissible and he must stop doing it. Tell him he is being disrespectful and you will not tolerate it. Do not go into a long conversation about why what or when. Carry on whatever you are doing if in public or with the children. Then if at home quietly leave the room for 20 minutes, ( like a timeout for children).

Sometimes even good men or women can forget themselves and say or do disrespectful things, often to try and get their way or control things. We see it happen every day all around us and unfortunately examples by fathers or bosses unconsciously teach men that they can do this. So it is the behavior that needs to change. Judging or condemning or blaming them for acting this way will only encourage more abuse and does not help. After all, people are free to think whatever they want- we cannot change their thinking. However, how we act, must be respectful of others, at all times. It is the most important thing in life for relationships, families, communities, nations, the world!

And this is an excellent lesson for your sons to see you doing calling your husband out without humiliating him but demanding to be treated with respect. If every mother could teach this to her children our world would be a better place...

*didn't mean to cross out "calling your husband out"

If you are going to stay with the condensing prat then you need comebacks.

Smart, unarguable snippy ones.

So if you forget something quite sarcastically say "sorry"
"Sorry sorry sorry"

Be kickass, like how dare this mere man talk to me like this.

Make him know that you are not going to be affected by his unreasonable beratings ever again.

"Oh I am ever so sorry can you ever forgive and forget. Ever so sorry"

Just waltz around, confident, happy, unaffected.

"Oh this complaint again it's so predicament and boring now you know"
(Men really dislike being boring).

"You had the same options as me for pudding, ask one of the kids to share one this one is all mine mine mine"

Pre-empt if you can "a disclaimer I will not be sharing any of my pudding BEFORE anyone asks for some"

"Oh here we go again, yes bad me, bad bad me"

You get the idea.

He does it because he knows he can. It's that simple OP.

Do you think if you were divorced, and he was going on the first few dates with his dream woman, that he would dare speak to her like that???

His behaviour suggests that he thinks of you as the little woman side-kick. You know in some films there usually a trope where there's two villains? On is usually smart and the other one not so much? Like Home Alone. That's the way he's behaving in these interactions - he thinks of himself as the smart one who has to brush the thick one aside to sort things out.

The problem I think is that you're not angry enough about this. I suspect that you have developed a very thick skin over the years, or always had one. When you realise what his behaviour reveals about his confidence you will be more angry than you are now.

I realised myself a while ago, that despite one person saying they want to be with the other, despite being committed, despite doing childcare together like you are, as far as i'm concerned once a partner that's belitteling the other like this, there is no romantic relationship anymore. It's turned into something else.

Does he sign or roll his eyes at you often?

@Whataretalkingabout I appreciate what you're saying, but I did call mine out pretty much every single time and it made no difference. He just became used to them and on the cycle went.

I can understand demanding a change in behaviour in front of the children or other people, but when it comes to their relationship, the damage is already done. He's already shown her very clearly what he thinks of her. He's either harbouring massive resentment towards her for something, or he simply doesn't respect her.

It does seem to indicate that he doesn't think much of you.

Well you are right @EarthSight , it doesn't always work. Sometimes the disrespectful behavior has gone on too long and has turned into contempt and there is no turning back. But that is for OP to decide.

I do agree with you that it helps to be angry, because anger is power! And abusers are all about maintaining and wielding power. However when you're being abused you are often too afraid to get angry. You have gradually given up all your power because you have been afraid. The goal is to get your power back without provoking the abuser's anger.

And this is best done by remaining calm, rational and unemotional. Being sarcastic with an abuser as @frozendaisy recommends is not a good idea. It can cause them to rage and become dangerous. Keep calm, remain respectful and demand respect for yourself like a broken record.

If this doesn't work then nothing will and you had best LTB.

let us know what happens... I'm in exactly same boat. Married over 30 yrs. It's rough and it's so so sad. I'm kinda over it and wish something would happen to eradicate him so I get a voice.

@Carlou I am so sorry, 30 years? Is there no way you can get him to leave.

OP I really feel for you. How would he respond if you stated that this is unacceptable? It is a form of emotional abuse because it's done to make you feel minimised and disrespected. You do not have to put up with this at any time, 15 years or otherwise.
There's obviously reasons why he does this but at the end of the day none of them really matter, he shouldn't do it.

I'd agree with @Whataretalkingabout that respect is the MOST IMPORTANT thing in any relationship, not just marriage. In fact, if I were to define love I'd say it is total mutual respect.

The trouble with putting the onus on yourself to call him out on it is that (a) that won't work; he sees no problem treating you that way and (b) you probably don't notice half of the "minor injuries" – or possibly even some major ones! – because you've got used to it. This is your normal, as it was once mine.

Think about other relationships you have, with friends, family, colleagues. What would it take for you to treat them with similar contempt and disdain? How ready would you be to do that, and in what circumstances? That tells you a lot about how your husband sees you, even if he believes you have a loving relationship.

This sort of daily drip erodes a person over the years. It has already damaged you; it will continue to undermine your confidence and distort your view of your place in the world.

I hope you find the means to get out and away from him, as I did. It took me two decades to marry again, in my late 50s, but DH#2 could not be more different. I can only think of one time he got briefly and mildly exasperated with me, on a car journey years ago, and he apologised immediately afterwards. Whereas DH#1 was pretty much constantly rude to me. If you put me in a room with him now, I'd last about 5 minutes!

@Carlou

wish something would happen to eradicate him so I get a voice
Is there any way you can remove yourself from this horrible situation? You don't want to be waiting patiently into your 90s for someone to die just so that you can live.

Earthsight little alarm bells are ringing a bit about what you say. He doesn't really roll his eyes as such and tbh doesn't really belittle or put me down in front of friends- but weirdly he does it a LOT in front of his parents (who are overseas so it only happens when we see them every year or so or on zoom/skype) I can't figure that one out- the psychology behind it. He does it in a jokey way but it pisses me off and I have talked to him about it but he pretty much downplays it thinking its no big deal.

He also does this jokey thing with the kids where he implies I'm not the smart one in the family and now they joke about it. I know, I probably should have nipped that one in the bud. 🙄 It IS affectionate, but I don't like the label they've all now given me.

SchruteShunned I am angry when there's an obvious disrepectful comment and I do speak up more than I used to (I think my tolerance is waning as I get older!) I tell him it's not acceptable and not to talk to me that way, then I usually walk away and simmer with anger but eventually things just go back to normal.

I do also remember a time I told him he HAD to stop doing something -I was very forceful but I wouldnt' say disrespectful. I said he had to stop saying something to the kids (it was probably using a way of trying to control them which he does) and he got so angry he said don't you ever talk to me like that again. I was quite surprised. He obviously doesn't like forceful women 🙄

If you feel disrespected then that won't be because you're imagining it.

Whataretalkingabout I totally agree, what you say makes a lot of sense. I think there were red flags before we got married (apart from him fooling around with his best friends girlfriend...) that should have been signs not to go ahead with it. He has (as far as I know) been faithful but there've been a few near misses...and when we were drunk there'd be massive rows but we don't get drunk these days 20 years on (now we've grown up ;-) and after writing all this it may sound weird to say that a lot of the time things are good- he's loving, affectionate and tells me he loves me, he does so much with the kids etc. BUT there are times when he's in a different mood...when he can be disrepectful, be insensitive and when he's like that it's almost like you can't get him to see why he's in the wrong? He will usually apologise much later, or sometimes when I say he needs to apologise he'll make a joke of it. I feel he's also disrespectful to the kids - he doesn't see it- it's an authoritarian approach (I don't agree with and we fight about how to parent them). He tries to control them and gets frustrated when they resist. Maybe that's how he is with me I don't know. It's so hard to unpick as, like someone said, it's been going on for so long. I think my confidence has been chipped away. I sometimes avoid telling him stuff to avoid him getting angry as it causes me anxiety. I remember when I got a speeding ticket and I was more worried about his reaction- like a child to their father I was crying saying sorry 🙄. The fact that I don't work right now tips the balance I think- I'm just about to finish studying and will find a job soon which may help redress the balance. I think he feels like he has more power as I am completely reliant on him for money too.

I've been in turmoil for a while- things are good...stable..happy MOST of the time. But I fantasise about leaving him.....it's almost like things aren't bad enough to consider it. I need to speak to a counsellor but the irony is we have a joint account so I can't even pay them without him questioning what the payment is for.

sorry just seen the new @ button 😂 does it notify people via email? if so I'll just tag the ones I've just replied to!
@Whataretalkingabout
@SchruteShunned
@EarthSight

Well just keep on shining@sunshine05 !
I understand that it is way more complicated than can be explained in a short post. Relationships are hard work. I am so happy for you that you have been able to study and have plans to get a job. That will be great for your self esteem and let's hope he shows you more respect because of it. Take good care of yourself. Will be cheering for you.;)

The fact that I don't work right now tips the balance I think- I'm just about to finish studying and will find a job soon which may help redress the balance. I think he feels like he has more power as I am completely reliant on him for money too.

Ah wow, yes, this is likely to be a big part of it. Right now he knows he can get away with speaking to you/treating you disrespectfully because you're financially vulnerable and therefore can't/won't leave.

He might rein it in a bit once you increase your financial power... but do you want to stay with a man who thinks you're only as good as the money you bring in? Who doesn't see what you bring to the family (which I am sure is a lot) as being as valuable as money? Who feels justified in poorly treating someone who has presumably made themselves financially vulnerable in order to take care of her family?

Would you treat someone with contempt because they didn't earn as much as you?

It was no mistake that he got really angry when you stood up to him. You're not 'allowed' to do that, you see. You have to take it because you're weaker than him. If you show strength, he increases the aggression to get you to understand that you're not in control, he is. He's a bully, plain and simple.

thanks @Whataretalkingabout I will fight for respect and see where my future goes... x

@CheekyHobson I think you're right, he is a bully - not all the time, but he manipulates people to get his own way- sometimes quite subtly- other times not so.

I will see how things change once I'm earning and I will absolutely shut him down if he disrespects me- I fear it will lead to more conflict but I think it's the only way he can realise he can't treat me like that. If he can't see it then I don't see a future with us.....

I know this thread has kind of ended but update- last night he shut me down during a conversation about moving/not moving house. I was just talking about a house and he was like 'we're not moving' and didn't want to talk anymore. I got angry and said he can't just shut me down- let me talk even if he has a point of view. He apologised later and we talked briefly how he grew up with a dad who was angry/shouted at others. Then this morning he apologised again and said he's going to seek help- to change how he reacts to things. I said thanks but are you really? He said yes. So I'm hoping this is a step forward and he'll try to change his ways....or maybe you can't change a leopards spots. We'll see....x