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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Do abusive people ever change?

14 replies

Ncforthispost23 · 04/05/2023 20:48

So I have never been close with my mum as she was quite frankly, pretty shit at being one. Sorry for the length, I just need to give some context as I really don’t think I’m being an unfair or mean daughter in protecting my own children!

My childhood and teenage memories are things like her dramatically sitting sobbing if something didn’t go to her liking or she was cross with me (difficult for a child to process or understand how to react to), one occasion being pulled along the hallway by my hair, being slapped for things like not looking at her and looking at my phone instead when she was having a go at me or her opening and shutting my bedroom door violently in my face whilst bellowing at me and I was in tears crying for my dad (they separated when I was very small and I saw him weekends only). I think she was very jealous that we had a great relationship and would regularly speak badly of him to me. She’d have a random man ‘friend’ who’d turn up out of the blue to our house in evenings and stay the night. She never explained properly who he was or facilitate us meeting him properly outside of our home.

One occasion after she’d slapped me and I’d gone to my room, she then got my gran to come round who waltzed into my room and started having a go at me too. I decided to leave the house so my grandad tried to chase me and sadly tripped over; cue her then screaming in the street that I was a bitch. Despite this one occasion where I’d just decided I’d had enough, I genuinely was a really ‘well behaved’ child and brought no trouble to the door.

Other times she would pack me off to be at my dad’s with no belongings as punishment, regularly ruined my birthdays by being in a mood if I didn’t want to have forced posed photos or didn’t wait to blow candles out before she could take photos (she left me at my 18th birthday party in a strop because I’d been having a good time with my dad there) and married not one but two abusive people.

One was an alcoholic who’d barely even speak to me and the second was a much older man who assaulted me in front of her.
He’d also hide food in the house from me, tried to get me to sign a ‘contract’ of chores and repeatedly engaged in behaviour to antagonise me like deleting my TV recordings from the planner and my entire library of ITunes music on the old family computer no one but me used. He’d come downstairs from bed on a night, knowing I was finally getting my time to watch TV, just to sit and huff or make comments about what I was watching.

If I wasn’t ready for school at an exact time, he’d leave me and then slate me for contacting my grandad to ask him for help to get to school. He’d also repeatedly try and turn her against me; I recall one occasion on holiday where he’d convinced her all night I hadn’t been grateful enough for an evening outing so I woke up to her storming out of the hotel room with him and my brother, completely ignoring me and me rushing to try and catch up to them, oblivious to what I’d done.
He’d kick the family dogs then deny it and they were only ever allowed to sit on their bed (not leave the bed) or be left in the garden for hours on end. She did absolutely nothing about this and chose to stay with him, despite me vocalising it all so I spent most of my time out of the house or in my room and moved out at 19. She thinks because she provided a house and material things for me, she was a good parent.

Since I had children, I’ve distanced myself from her and vowed to myself she will never be alone with the children. She’s repeatedly been rubbish and will always play the victim. My FIL for example has set up bank accounts for our children for their future. She keeps buying things they will never need or use like soft toys or clothes and then uses that as leverage to try and visit. When I decline, she’ll persist that she needs to get them to the children. They’ve only met her a handful of times and never been alone with her.

After a horrendous time with our baby DD, she insisted she still visit, despite me saying we didn’t want visitors due to the situation. She stated she’d only be 5 minutes yet was here an hour, barely spoke and just kept staring at DD. When I was due DD, I went off grid and DH texted everyone I was having time away to prepare and relax. She kept bombarding me with messages and told him she’s not in the wrong for being concerned about ‘her daughter’.

Most recently, she’s messaged me that she feels we (DH and I) ‘want’ to do everything ourselves and she wants to spend time with ‘her’ grandchildren. So she states, she’s put her past mistakes behind her and she is her ‘true self’ again now. As far as I’m concerned, her behaviour is all I’ve ever known so it can’t be a mistake and whoever else she’s claiming to be now is news to me!

So, am I right in my stance that she will never have access to my children and that she surely can’t have changed or, do people ever change and they can be different to how they were with you?
I really still have a lot of the FOG around her I fear as every interaction with her gives me anxiety yet, admittedly I’m still in my childhood approach of appeasement almost.

OP posts:
Inthebathagain · 04/05/2023 20:49

No, they don't.

Stick to your guns.

Lottapianos · 04/05/2023 20:51

You're absolutely right to stick to your guns. Why would you even take the risk of trusting her? What a truly dreadful time you have had.

Neverthinkjustdo · 04/05/2023 21:07

No.
The either get worse or they hide it better when they need to (eg: when they are trying to reel you in for more abusing).

RosieLemonadeAndSugar · 04/05/2023 21:25

I'm sorry OP that's sounds like an awful childhood.

I think your doing the right thing. She has no rights to your children and your doing what you think is best for them.

I'd tell her why if you can face it.

msisfine · 05/05/2023 06:04

I have a friend whose mother was like this - she supported her mum for years and years and only ever got abuse in return. She has now cut her out of her life completely, and although it was a hard decision she says a huge weight has been lifted. BTW the mother repeated the narcissistic behaviour with their only grandchild and isn't allowed to see them either.

Watchkeys · 05/05/2023 08:39

It doesn't matter if they change or not. I'd be excluding her for damage already done.

PaintedEgg · 05/05/2023 08:43

they can if they really, really put a lot of work in it and admit they were abusive. So they usually don't and even if they do become better people their abusive or violent tendencies are always at risk of making an unexpected comeback.

your mother sounds like she doesn't even admit to what the did wrong, i doubt she understands it, so you are 100% right to keep your distance and absolutely never leave your kids with her

FartSock5000 · 05/05/2023 11:02

@Ncforthispost23 time can change people but it doesn't correct personality traits like narcissism or similar. It also doesn't make an abuser suddenly not be abusive, especially if there didn't put in any work to correct their behaviour.

For your own sanity, you should go low or no contact with them.

They won't change and don't deserve to have a relationship with you and your new family.

SavBlancTonight · 05/05/2023 11:54

People who display abusive behaviours CAN change. But it's extraordinarily difficult and takes a lot of work, starting with an acknowledgement that they were abusive and need to change. It doesn't sound like she's there at all. I'm sorry Op - but maintaining your distance is fine. if she had really changed, she'd understand your caution and would be working towards a slow reconciliation.

AllOrNothingSituation · 05/05/2023 12:07

No!

YourMommaWasASnowblower · 05/05/2023 12:13

I’ve never known an abusive person change (unfortunately I’ve known a few), they usually get worse and more manipulative as they get older.
Sorry for all you have been through.

Newestname002 · 05/05/2023 12:27

@Ncforthispost23

So, am I right in my stance that she will never have access to my children and that she surely can’t have changed or, do people ever change and they can be different to how they were with you?

Yes you are right OP. The memories of how you were abused both directly and indirectly (eg the older man assaulting you) are still fresh in your memory and you absolutely should protect your children from her and anyone else she's with. Block her/Keep her away from you and from your children. Go completely no contact if you can. She put you in danger from the men she invited into your home: this is not, in my opinion, forgivable and still doesn't have your well-being at heart.

Question though: was there a possibility when you were much younger to be able to live with your dad and get away from her and her partner's' mistreatment of you?

Thank goodness your husband is supportive and, it seems your in laws/FIL too so you have people to lean on. 🌹

Mom2K · 05/05/2023 12:40

It doesn't matter if they change or not. I'd be excluding her for damage already done.

This ^^

But no, I don't believe they change. They can get better at hiding it but it's always there.

Ncforthispost23 · 05/05/2023 12:56

Thank you all for your replies, it’s reassuring to hear I’ve been doing the right thing as she so often makes me feel so anxious and that she’s not a bad person.
I’m aware as a parent myself we all make mistakes but I really can’t say years of her behaviour could possibly be a mistake.

I did go NC with her at Christmas a few years ago as she made a big song about wanting to come and drop off presents for my then, just one child. I gave her a time to come over but she didn’t at all nor contact me, then once it was too late to come over, messaged and blamed me for not getting in touch with her. She then refused to accept the NC, sent my gran trying to guilt trip message me and kept messaging my DH, insisting it had gone on long enough and needed sorting out.

I agree about the personality, I don’t think you can change that at all. She’s always been a negative voice in anything I’ve wanted to do - if I’ve been considering a house, the area is really bad, if I’ve had a boyfriend growing up, they ‘weren’t for me’ or friends would be judged and spoken about negatively to me based on how they presented to her. She even tried to block me moving out by saying I wasn’t allowed to do it and told me I couldn’t take any of my bedroom furniture.

@Newestname002 Unfortunately, my dad went onto have two more children with his new wife so there wasn’t room for me to be there permanently. The older man was an ex police officer and a narc through and through. He even had CD’s printed with a picture of his face on, of him (badly but he thought he was a great talent!) singing which he’d make us listen to when driving. That would’ve been a red flag to me without any of the other things!
Yes thankfully, my FIL is amazing and supports us so much, we’re lucky to have him.

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