This is working relationship related/please tell me what you think and advise me how to handle this womam?

[Cupcake00]

I started a new job 6 weeks ago. I'm a nurse. It's office based and I work alongside some non clinical staff. Some have been in the trust for 20 years. A woman in the office is very loud, very out spoken, very negative towards the role has started to make me question a few things. I do believe in an office, there is always going to be a mixture of personalities. Some you gravitate to, someess so. However, in a professional role, I try to keep it just that. I have had some really lovely feed back and seem to be getting along with everyone. This particular lady is someone I definitely try to tolerate the most. I let her carry on with whatever it is she is doing/saying. The language that comes from her mouth. She uses the word C*, in most conversations. On my 3rd day I walked in to the office and they were talking about sexual partners and how often people have sex. I'm no prude but she asked me if I spit or swallow. Anyway, 5 weeks on, I'm ok but noticed the following....
She tells everyone I'm posh, I don't swear (odd comment as I don't actually feel the need to, never been one to use language in my vocabulary, however, not saying I never do). Tells, people I live in a posh area. If I talk about anything therapeutic for the staff, she completely rios it apart (loudly). She keeps saying you keep coming back (as in, to work), I say, yes, I'm enjoying the role. Her eyes roll every time I say something positive. I was doing some training online as it was quiet and another clinician was in (who is also new). This woman started telling me I was a swot, repeatedly. Making comments like 'look at me, look at me'. She bitches about so many people (some I don't know), some new staff. Saying they're autistic, gay and have personality disorders. The next day, I finished up my training and she was calling me a lick arse, whilst doing the hand gestures. She just went on and on. Then I was discussing a patient and conversation with GP. Another colleague has said, sometimes you have to be more assertive to some GP's. This lady shouted out. Oh my god, her, assertive and laughed.
I'm all for banter and trying to get along with everyone but this is grating on me a little. It seems to be getting worse. I feel her staring at me and on occasions when I have asked her something, she blanks me.
I would really appreciate some advice.
The manager is new. The manager is also her friend out of work. I have already been told to be careful what I say to her. The manager keeps calling me in another room and asking me about things that is going on in the office. Yesterday, she called me in and asked if 'people were batching about the rotas, new rules around shifts'. They had but I just said I hadn't heard anything.
Just feeling a little deflated. I need this job. Its more money and close to home and fits with childcare. I also like the actual role and all other staff. This lady is a very big influence in the office. I have seen the nicest of staff act differently in her company.

Anyone? Before I go back to work tomorrow 😔

Keep ignoring her, quietly look for other jobs.

Well done for not reporting her to the manager: don't fall into that trap.

I disagree. You like Job, don't be bullied out of it.
I'd start a log of her bullying and unprofessional behaviours in case you need it, but I'd also calmly challenge her and ask why she thinks it's ok to talk like that about people.
I'm sure if you stand up to her others will join in.

Is she a lower band to you?

I’ve had it all at work. It’s a nightmare. The atmosphere changes as soon as they arrive for work and when they’re off it’s like a different office. People behave differently around them in order not to be the next victim. There are some majorly unstable people in work places. She’s a bully and she goes unchallenged because she knows everyone is scared of her.

Have you spoken to HR? None of this acceptable. If it were a man asking if you spit of swallow, they would be out for sexual harassment.

What this woman is doing is bullying and harassment. I would be recording all the comments and when and taking them to HR. You don’t have to copy in her manager - though her manager will find out.

I think you should look for other jobs as this may not end well, but certainly don’t accept this.

Does your trust have a 'freedom to speak up' department that you can approach? She sounds like a twat.

OP, I think this is bullying. She is trying to demean and belittle you and while you're thankfully only finding it annoying, it could push someone else to the edge. I agree with PPs - keep a log for a couple of weeks and then make a complaint.

Yeah, the atmosphere will be frosty when she finds out but at least it'll be quiet!

Please don't stand back and accept this. I would imagine everyone else who has to work with her would be ecstatic if she was dealt with. Bullying, harassment, unprofessional in the extreme. Either everyone else thinks it's OK, in which case you definitely need to leave and tell them exactly why, or everyone else thinks it's appalling and is waiting for someone to make a stand. I hope you feel you can make a stand. I bet they were ecstatic when you joined and would be gutted to lose you so soon.

The woman sounds totally awful! Its really difficult because it sounds as if she's been there a while and has some influence because of that? I'm which case, it'll be really difficult to stop her. In this situation I agree with your colleagues - try and give it back to her, but not in a overly bitchy. She might just be plain horrible, but there's a chance she just likes brash banter in which case, you could just join in a little and see if she backs off you.

I think the only thing you can do is wait until you’re more established in the job and then quietly and calmly challenge her and ask what her problem is with you. I did this when I was appointed office manager from the ranks. It was a nightmare because of one colleague who had made it plain she wasn’t keen on me when we worked at the same level. It stepped up a couple of gears when I was promoted. She argued with me at every opportunity and tried to undermine my authority in front of the senior manager. At that point I took her aside and read her the riot act and it stopped.

What’s your relationship - are you the same level, or are you senior to her ? If senior, a quiet word about respecting your position might help but if not you’ll eventually have to bite the bullet and call it out for the outlandish and bullying behaviour it clearly is. The fact that she’s ‘in’ with the manager shouldn’t make a difference if you have a genuine grievance, and you may need to involve them at some point. I wouldn’t be too worried about this as I can’t imagine that the manager doesn’t know what she’s like around the office, if it’s as loud and uncouth as you say. And she has to be even handed in the event you do raise a complaint. You need to get control of the situation. I’d keep track of events - a diary of outbursts, bad language and unprofessional behaviour, just to be on the safe side - including a record of times she’s been unpleasant or critical of you personally. It’s bullying behaviour and she’s getting away with it because she’s spent years establishing herself and haranguing everyone else into submission. If you were to ask around you’d probably find that a lot of people would be a lot happier if she wasn’t there.

I wonder is she clinical staff too? (her behaviour sounds way beneath professional standards)

As there are many positives to the job, I think I would try and grey-rock her, completely ignore her, make her seem insignificant in your mind and with your body language (notwithstanding that you will feel anxious underneath) - and then try and slowly befriend other supportive individual staff, go for coffee, slowly build relationships….and given time the situation might ease.

This is exactly it.

I'd keep a record. I had someone like this but it was all verbal. One day she slipped up and sent an inappropriate email. I had notes of the other weird encounters - there were witnesses but no one spoke up.

she was friends with the CEO and left out of sheer luck for us. She was a contractor and he'd wanted her to get a permanent job there, but the people who would have been her bosses said she alienated too many people.

how long has she been there?

I often used to feel she was angry with me but I didn't know why.

I’d be straight to HR. She makes sexual, homophobic, racist comments? She asked if you spit or swallow?! She sounds massively insecure or is she just common as?

She’s a bully. End of. She probably sees herself as untouchable. Anyone who makes a stand will feel her wrath, be sure of that. It’s so unfair that these people are employed and we all have to suffer them in what could/should be a nice working environment.

If you aren’t comfortable confronting her by asking her exactly what her problem is or what she’s trying to accomplish with her behaviour then either go straight to her manager or if evidence is needed keep a record of everything before talking to her manager. I find it strange that her language and behaviour has not been challenged by anyone.

I’d secretly record her, then book a meeting with HR and your manager and make them listen. Tell them if she doesn’t go, it’ll be all over the internet by the next morning. Their call.

Don't secretly record her. Bad advice.

Thankyou so much everyone.
I'm a clinician and she is a support worker. However worked in the trust 23 years. Friends with the manager but completely puts her down to everyone. The manager even speaks about her. It's so unprofessional. I'm in complete shock with it all.
I have started a diary. I'm definitely building relationships there and I have had lots of good feedback, which is lovely. Most of the support workers change around her but the new clinician I was in with is joining in with her. I couldn't believe my shift Monday and Tuesday. Its been small digs, but these 2 days were one after the other.
When they were talking about the new support worker. She diagnosed him with autism with an hour. Then gay. Then lazy. Then others joined in. I have said he is extremely anxious, he needs time to settle in. I was told I was wrong, he is lazy!
I have started a diary because its shocking how much is being said.
I went to join a therapy group last week as I was intrigued. She shouted out so loud that it was pathetic. I answered and said its worth going in to have a listen as it's something we might learn for patients. She laughed and told me to get a life, better still go out and get yourself a shag!
I am doing very well at holding my own and to be honest its not making me anxious. I'm just wondering how to manage it as I'm wondering if I speak out, others will be too afraid of her and I will be singled out. Do people just put their heads down nowadays. As everyone else seems to be!
I'm sorry to hear others have been through this. I just don't understand some people. The day's she isn't there is lovely.
I really don't want to be pushed out by her. It's so tough to find a job that fits!
Thankyou all so much.

She sounds delightful. She is a loudmouthed, bigoted bully, who thinks she is safe because of her friend and the fact that nobody stands up to her. She doesn't like you because you are not like her.

In all honesty I would look for a job elsewhere. My younger self would have said throw the kitchen sink at her (HR etc), I hate bullies and unfairness. But these days I prefer to remove myself on the basis that life is too short. But that just means she gets away with it. And it might take you a while to find a new job.

But you should keep a diary and evidence for sure in case you have to/want to escalate. The trouble with big mouths is they don't keep receipts of their many misdemeanours. But that doesn't stop other people from doing so.

It’s sooo tough when there’s someone like this in an office. Their mood dictates the whole office, everything’s a negative, they bring the team down.

All I can say is don’t take any shit from her, let her bitch about other people but once she targets you - give it right back and she’ll soon shut up. Keep records of everything she says so you have evidence if she ever pipes up against you.

Log absolutely everything!!

Can you sound out HR?

You could ask MN to move this to the work topic, you might get advice about the processes you could use here. I would consider an anonymous whisteblowing report, not just about the woman’s behaviour but also that the relationship between her and the manager means that inappropriate behaviour is not being dealt with. As the comments are out of kilter with diversity and inclusion I would hope that they both get the book thrown at them.

You could also respond in a non-confrontational way if you feel safe to do so. Phrases like ‘Ha, Sandra, if I didn’t know better I’d swear you were trying to bully me, but you’re not, are you?’ Or a mild ‘That was a rude. Are you ok?’