Does abuse by a partner feel so much worse if you’ve experienced it as a child?

[Vdubmug]

Im asking as my ex abused me and I was very effected by it. I’ve come to the understanding that this is because I was neglected as a child and have wounds I didn’t realise going into the relationship. Him caring about his own needs didn’t worry about how I was feeling and I endured the manipulation for 12 years.

His next girlfriend seems to handle him so much better then me and he isn’t getting away with what he did with me. She doesn’t have my childhood experiences. When he shouted at me my flight fight was to fawn and basically play dead. Hers on the other hand is to stand up and tell him to stop. He needs her so currently respects when she says stop. She is stronger and less of a victim then I was. She also has a good job and not dependable on him like I was when we met. The balance of power was much more in his favour with me. His girlfriend now bosses him around and the balance of power is more equal from the outset.

Our daughter has told me that when he starts to shout at her she shuts him down and he stops. He didn’t when I asked him to stop. She also has much more similar needs then we did. Being abused as a child I was looking for safety in a relationship and he wanted children and admiration asap. She got pregnant within a year of meeting him. I took 8 years as the relationship was empty connection wise.

Do you think it helps to be able to respond more strongly to someone like this and have similar needs? Perhaps he needed someone who doesn’t have so many needs themselves as he has many?

I think you're blaming yourself and only the abuser is responsible for abuse, not the person on the receiving end of it.

It may be that the dynamic is different with his new GF, or maybe that they behave differently when your DD is there. Or maybe she is more able to stand up to him because she didn't have the negative experiences you had...but that still doesn't make it your fault.

More likely is this is early days for them, and he isn't treating her as badly as he treated you ... yet. I was the new GF in this situation many years ago, and at that point our relationship seemed very different to that with his "crazy ex-wife". Years later I am now the crazy ex-wife in my turn, and with hindsight I can now see that his relationship with me followed exactly the same pattern as it did with her, just the order of play was different because she had kids soon after they got together, and mine were later - the change in the relationship each time was because he wasn't the centre of attention any more.

I know it's difficult to stop thinking about what might have been, I do it too, but try instead and focus on what you need now, forget about him as much as possible, he isn't anything to you any more.

Look after yourself @Vdubmug , maybe try and get some counselling through Women's Aid or someone similar who understands abuse, and concentrate on you and your DD, as you are the important people in this situation.

@meandtheboy I just can’t help but think I had such a hard time because I really took a lot of it more personally then perhaps I should or it was meant. I absolutely hate raised voices and he was always loud and in your face. I shouldn’t have accepted it but because it triggered me I froze all the time. I don’t think he was doing it deliberately. Well he was ignoring my needs I suppose but I put the past experience on what he was doing.

I do realise he needs this girlfriend because he wouldn’t have got access to our daughter without all she does. She looks after her whilst she visits. He would loose a lot if he abused her. It would prove me right and I doubt he’d want to do that.

I don’t understand why he was so awful to me but now is completely different. It’s like he was planning on discarding me in the end as I was too damaged. He got all he could from me in the end as I was really mentally unwell. I understood he only used me to fulfil his needs and didn’t care what that did to me. I suppose at the moment his girlfriend is happy with what she gets in return. She isn’t as isolated as I was and is starting off stronger. She doesn’t need him like I did as she has her own house and money. He can’t use that against her like he did me.

Oh dear girl, I am exactly the new GF in this situation, right down to him only having access to his kids because I was doing all the parenting (and I mean, EVERYTHING!)

But like you I grew up in an abusive household, I hate shouting and any kind of tension, and I just froze and fauned just like you did. He did know what he was doing, of course he did (I have asked my counsellor this many times, and she is firm on this), and who knows if you had been able to stand up to him, would he have behaved any differently towards you? And why should you have to stand up to him anyway, he is supposed to love and support you, not be something that you have to defend yourself against - again I have asked myself this many times, was I not strong enough, should I have been more robust...and in the end I was, I asked him to leave, and because he wasn't taking me seriously, he did, thinking he'd be back within a few days. He wasn't, and I'm well shot of him.

The truth will come out with this new GF, it always does - it did with me even though it took a while, he just couldn't hide his real nature indefinitely. My XH hasn't found a new GF yet (I don't think) but I know when he does I will really struggle with it, as you are, I am dreading it tbh...be gentle with yourself, it is not you who is in the wrong here, it is him.

If you haven't had abuse, you don't see it as normal, you see it for what it is and don't put up with it. So it's more the other way around in general, experience of abuse desensitises and makes you put up with more.
However, you are seeing this relationship from the outside. She is still putting up with a person who shouts at her to a degree. If her life until him had been so perfect, she would not have stayed and had a baby with him.
I'd guess he wants children asap as he uses that as a way to prevent women from leaving him. He knows he's not a catch and needs other ties otherwise he'd just get dumped.

@meandtheboy how can they control it for so many years. Unless she just doesn’t trigger it in him. He helps her at home yet he wouldn’t lift a finger to help me. He does babies bathtime with their baby but with ours didn’t want to. It’s very confusing. Why does he treat her better or how can he if he needs the control.

I remember our relationship being very transactional and because I didn’t hold up on my end of the deal he lost respect, that’s what he said. He put a lot of effort in to get what he expected but I didn’t give it. Eg he said I’ve got you a house and this and that but you haven’t given me a baby. I just didn’t want to have one because I wasn’t ready no matter what he bought me. Perhaps she is better at the other end of the transaction not having to work through the issues I have.

I think you are right that some abusers deliberately target vulnerable people because they think it will be easier to get away with the abuse. That does NOT make it the fault of the person being abused.

OP, I know it's hard, but try not to give it too much headspace. Who knows what is really going on inside their relationship? Focus on yourself and your own recovery.

@DucksNewburyport I know the new lady is 14 years younger and doesn’t have a dad or speak to him. She wanted a baby ASAP for whatever that reason was. Perhaps they use each other.

He's treating her better (a) because they're at the start of their relationship and (b) because possibly he's realised that he can't step out of line with her as much as he did with you AT THIS POINT.

He won't be able to control himself forever, abusive is who he is...and so at some point he will let his guard slip and behave badly towards her; either she'll tell him to get lost, or more likely, she'll be worn down and will think that she/they must try harder because of the child...and that way she'll be stuck, just like you were and I was.

@Opentooffers is spot on, those of us who have been abused don't realise that it isn't normal, so we stay and try and make it better...only we can't make it better, because the problem isn't us.

@meandtheboy I suppose I no nothing about her upbringing or what she deems acceptable. I’m sure he’s worked that out though. I wish I had a higher bar back then. He would have done anything for me at the beginning, but he was nasty at times also and always needed something in return, it was never just because.

That's the thing love, you don't know who she is - except she was so desperate for a baby she had one with a man 14 years older than her who she barely knew. That's enough to think she's vulnerable and that he'll do the same to her in time...

And even if he doesn't (which is very unlikely) he was abusive to you. As @DucksNewburyport says try to switch the focus back onto yourself, I know, I very much know, how hard it is, but he's not your problem any more, so don't spend any more time/energy thinking about him than is unavoidable. Think about making your and DD's life better and happier instead.

I know @meandtheboy I have a nice life now with a new baby also, Years later in the relationship not at the beginning. It was an easy decision as my current partner does not trigger me and I feel safe with him. I had a termination many many years back with my ex as I was young and he desperately wanted a baby he forced me, I’d say pinned me. I chose not to keep it because it was only months in and he was always angry and I was not ready at all. I think he always hated me after that, well he said he did when I left him. He lost respect for me. He stayed a further 9 years though which he didn’t need to. The new one for her own reasons kept the baby. She is 12 years other then I was though and has her own reasons.

I think she gives him freely what he tried to manipulate from me. He didn’t Isolate me but it was a consequence of depression from not having any support from him and from the manipulation.

His new relationship is going to go one of two ways. She has better boundaries and he will learn to respect them. Or he will slowly start to treat her the same way as you. Many controlling men want to have children as that ties a woman to them further.

Only time will tell. As you recover it will matter less.

As for your question. Yes, childhood abuse/neglect makes it more likely that you will suffer the same in a relationship. The thinking is that when you meet someone like this, it feels normal, even comfortable. Someone with a good upbringing will only see red flags.

I suppose you could argue that as she’s with him, she also must have been ok ignoring the red flags of his behaviour. Again only time will tell.

People like your ex are generally good at spotting others with poor boundaries, and know how to manipulate. They take it as fast or slowly as they need to.

You are obviously still trying to process all this. I am in a similar situation myself, although my ex hasn’t got a partner yet. I would recommend journaling, and reading up on emotional abuse recovery. Sometimes it is suggested to only allow yourself a specific time window each day, say 15 minutes, to think about this and refrain the rest of the day.

I am having similar overthinking about my ex so I am all over mumsnet like a bad rash. I’m using this forum as my personal therapy.

@Isheabastard its a complete head fuck. He is like a completely different person with the new lady. Like he’s had a complete personality change. They go out on trips and walks all he did with me was smoke weed and drink. I stupidly allowed it I suppose. I don’t know who he is it’s like he changed his identity. He said I made him depressed because I never loved him enough. He is right because he was awful to me.

My DH's ex was abusive towards him for 12 years. He said that she wasn't as bad as his biological mother so he put up with it. His ex punched him in the face 4 weeks into their relationship and he laughed it off and thought "my mum hits harder than that".

DH was abandoned by his mother as a baby and raised by his grandparents. When his gran died his mum took him back around age 11, by which time she had a new partner and 2 other kids. He was seen as the outsider, physically and mentally abused and eventually made homeless at 15. I think the level of rejection he experienced before even getting to adulthood made him grateful for anyone who wanted him.

When I got with him, although he appeared confident on the outside he definitely had a lot of self doubt. It's taken a while for him to build his self-esteem back up.

I think regardless of whether someone experienced abuse in childhood, it is never their fault and they are never better or worse than someone else for the way they dealt with abuse.

He's taken up enough of your time. Don't give him any more wondering about the what ifs or comparing yourself to his new partners. Just be glad that you're rid of him.

How long has he been with her? It could absolutely all be an act until he has her trapped with a baby etc.

How do you know so much about their lives anyway? I don't think it's healthy for you to be so involved in what he does.

Also, what you're seeing is only a snippet of what's going on. Like those couples on Facebook who posts the lovely dovey posts but they're both cheating on each other.

@Laurdo "I think the level of rejection he experienced before even getting to adulthood made him grateful for anyone who wanted him."

That is so very sad, but I relate to it completely - as a younger woman I thought anyone who wanted me, in any capacity, probably just felt sorry for me. I had no idea of my self-worth, or my level of attractiveness (emotional and physical) and like your DH I have put up with a lot, too much, over the years.

I'm glad he has found you, and hopefully @Vdubmug will get the love and support she needs from her new partner. For me, I'm still healing and it'll be a long while before I can trust someone again.

I heard a lot via court and my daughter comes back and talks a lot about them. It felt like when I was with him he took everything as a personal rejection not realising that I had my own issues that weren’t anything to do with him. He said he always felt rejected by me when that wasn’t what I was trying to do. It doesn’t make sense that because he felt rejected by me that he’d go on to hurt me when he could have left. Hurting me won’t make me reject him less it made me even more disconnected to him. In the end we hated each other although I was the one to call it a day and he begged me to change my mind. Odd considering he really didn’t think much of me it seemed.

He's an arrogant nasty person who will push to bully and dominate to get his own way. But it will depend on how much the other person pushes back, and how dependent or not she is. It sounds like you "laid low" to diffuse aggression (I was much the same in my early relationships because my father was violent with a foul temper, it was self preservation) whereas the new partner refuses to be bullied. Whereas you might have expected him to storm off and end things, he's stuck around because he's not as dominant as he acted. Independence of a practical kind is important too. The new girlfriend is older than you were at the same stage, probably has a longer job history and finances. So she can afford to say no to him because she won't be stuffed if he leaves. He's dependent on her for the practical side of looking after your daughter, so she has that to bargain with too. He will not have changed. He's still a nasty piece of work, but she is "managing" him. Rather her than you though! Focus on enjoying your new life.

I meant to add that even in his relationships there can be (sometimes very subtle) power shifts which coincide with the equal balance tipping and one partner becoming more dependent on the other. I don't just mean financially, it can be lots of different ways. My husband is not abusive but there have been times I felt more dependent on him and though he was kind to to to me it felt like his respect and desire waned slightly and vice versa. Things are definitely best when we're on an equal footing.

@honeylulu thats what I find confusing. Can he have had a personality change form someone who sat and smoked weed and drank and got really aggressive to someone completely different who does none of those things. How can he go from someone really really mean to to this. He was a hairdresser and he refused to help my dad cut his hair when he was dying from cancer. When he finally passed he physically stepped over me when I broke down crying on the floor. He had no empathy for me whatsoever, how can he now be a nice partner.

I do think he was less powerful then he made out. I was scared of him but he perhaps wasn’t someone to have been that scared of. But then he had me backed against wall shouting in my face and that would be scary for anyone. He really confuses me. How can he be so different now?

I believe he is co-dependant and narcissistic at that stage I was dependent also. He needs a partner and will manipulate and bully if he has to. She has more power then I did so I’m surprised he has gone for someone not to easy to manipulate. She’s pretty much given him what he’s wanted anyway. Another baby, somewhere to stay and someone to look after our daughter when she stays. She’s a good asset to him. She is young and attractive so he’ll like that but he is getting old now.

Referring to your post yesterday at 13.52.

I realised far too late that just because my ex said something, it didn’t mean it was true. In fact most of the time HE didn’t even think it was true.

It’s just their way of mind fucking you. So don’t try and make sense of what he said to you or about you. His aim in every conversation/argument you had with him, would have been to get the upper hand anyway he could. If that meant outright lying or deliberately failing to understand your point of view - then that’s what he would have done. Any excuse is a good excuse to them.

I once had an argument with my ex (or more accurately he got very angry at me over something I said). Three years later he half apologised and said he was drunk. He actually said “if I didn’t apologise then, I meant to”