A non-ex ex situation

[Globules]

1. NC'd

2. Longer post than expected, but didn't want to drip feed.

3. Potential trigger for those affected by suicide.

Been with new guy about 9 months. He's got very many great qualities, we click in so many ways and I fancy the pants off him. Things are going really well. We're aged 49/51.

About 2 months in, he told me that he's still in daily touch with a girl he had a few dates with 4 years ago. They met OLD. She contacts him first each day. It wasn't really a goer for him, but by the time they met IRL, they'd been messaging over 6 months. She has been through an unfair amount of trauma, illness and now has a life limiting condition. This has understandably had a significant effect on her mental health.

In those 6 months of messaging, she made him into her strength. He didn't realise that was happening and never wanted to be that to her. She has threatened suicide to him, and him alone, on a few occasions and followed through twice by taking a few too many pills (enough to have a long sleep and feel sick, but not to end her life).

He does many things IRL for me and others that show he's a very kind man. With her, he feels his only option is to be kind, give her support by messaging and not rock the boat, even though they haven't seen each other in 4 years. She will occasionally type romantic/sexual messages to him, but he shuts those down quickly.

I think the kinder thing in the long run is to spell out that things are over and to encourage her to begin to use the network she has around her in the town 2 hours from where we live. Suggest she sees a professional counsellor. He says that he's tried that before-she says she's got no one else in her life like him. Refuses to have counselling. He feels she would end her own life if he withdrew his support. Understandably, he doesn't want to take that risk.

As things have progressed with us, I'm less comfortable with this. This weekend, and some previous weekends before, he was preoccupied with checking his phone, as she told him she was having investigations for yet another potential terminal illness- the third in the time NG and I have been together. I wondered aloud if there was a chance she could be making some of this up to keep his attention on her, and he got cross with my cynical attitude.

His close friends refuse to talk to him or with him about this girl anymore, as they're fed up with how stuck NG is. They've exhausted all options talking with him.

I'm finding it difficult that I see him repeatedly lying to her about his life, e.g. we spent a weekend in London, he messaged her that nothing out of the ordinary was happening during his weekend. I told him I find his lying difficult, as I'd had years of XH lying to me, and his response was "What am I supposed to do?"

He wants the friendship done more than I do, but neither of us want to chance her ending her life.

I have experience of the link of suicide & mental health, having supported a close friend for many years through 3 attempts, the 4th ending her life a few years back. I also have experience of a friend with a life limiting condition, illness upon illness who has also ensured some horrid trauma. She chooses to seek regular support from a counsellor to work through her mental health issues. So these things aren't unknown to me.

Things are really good with NG in every other area, but this weekend got to me that his brain was again preoccupied with her. He should have been able to relax into the chilled weekend we'd planned.

If we were in the pub having a drink, what would you say to me?

If she is truly suicidal, after 4 years she'd have done it.

I know of 3 people (through those very close to me) who have taken their own lives. They had loving families, real life support and yet it still wasn't enough to stop them.

People who are genuinely suicidal are often successfully suicidal. A random man they'd been on 4 dates with 4 years earlier would not be enough to keep them alive. When their only contact was via messaging. It's simply not enough support.

If she is sending him occasional romantic/sexual messages on occasion she is in it for something other than MH support. She may well be telling everyone she knows about her long distance boyfriend. She may well tell herself that he must feel more or he wouldn't be doing this.

He isn't telling her because he is worried she will stop contacting him if she knows he has a girlfriend. Not because he is worried she will take her own life.

The fact he spent a weekend away with you and was constantly checking his phone for updates from her tells you all know meed to know.

Whatever she gets from this enmeshment with him. He is also getting something from it.

Lots of questions in here I could answer, but it won't change the gist of your responses, so no point.

Thank you to you all who took time to reply. Lots for me to think about and decisions to make how to approach this with him.

I do want to apologise as I missed where you said about your friend. I would have worded things more sensitively if I had read more carefully. It doesn't change my basic reaction to this situation as I don't think it is the same as that, tho. But I am very sorry for your loss.

The crux of the matter is that you can't get him to disentangle himself from her, even though that's what needs to happen for his good, for your good and probably for her good.

Presuming you don't want to just leave him to it... have you talked to his friends about it all? The ones who also know what a deeply unhealthy situation it is? I don't know if that could lead to a fix, but the kind of intervention he needs might have more impact if it came from both you and them acting together. Or at the very least you might get some support or ideas.

I wouldn’t have a problem with them maintaining contact but he should definitely be telling her about you and that you’re together - it’s normal conversation to have with a friend ! It won’t be doing her any good lying to her - it’s all kinds of wrong.
However, for all the posters who say she should just get a therapist - it’s not that easy - it’s very expensive for one and it’s quite a different type of support than friendship.

Thank you @category12 I appreciate that. It wasn't too clear in my OP.

I know my opinion on this is coloured by my friends suicide and how much support she needed just to get through each hour, let alone each day. It was so hard for the 4 of us around her to look after ourselves looking after her.

I had my XH pulling me back, supporting me in supporting her and helping me to maintain boundaries. NG didn't have that when she started leaning on him and he didn't talk to his 2 closest friends about it in the early days for whatever reason.

I truly believe people can't understand how difficult it is to pull back from someone after having sat by their bedside after they've been medically dead and revived.

For me, I remember a surreal night in A+E joking about the new red necklace my friend had treated herself to and would be wearing for at least the next week.

For NG, the girl's sister arranged for NG to be at the end of the phone to talk to the girl for the entire 20 mins she was woken from her medically induced coma each day for over a month. The reason being is that NG brought the girl joy. The coma was brought on by organ failure. The sister also made sure he was there when she was brought out of the coma for good. This was the fifth time he'd seen her IRL. And the last time too. Covid hit soon after, so that was his excuse to not go see her.

He realises now that it was the wrong call agreeing to be that person on the phone, but no one was there to pull him back. And most men just don't talk about this stuff, do they? 🤣 His motivation was being kind to a fellow human. Or maybe it was a saviour complex at the time? Who knows? Hindsight is a wonderful thing and he wishes he'd been clear and firm back then.

From my understanding, the sister is the only living relative. Mum and aunt were both very ill for a while before dying in the last two years. Sister is a single mum with primary age children. She's been carrying her load, but has been the primary carer for 6 other people for 4+ years. I guess she's tired and I get it. The girl has lost all her other friends along the way.

If he doesn't support her, then who will? He's too caring to have the "it's not my problem" attitude. I agree with him that looking after society better also means looking after the 1 better. If he believes she hasn't got support around her, why would he choose to withdraw his. He also knows her reliance on him isn't right, but extraction from her life is far easier said than done.

Hence my decision to thank everyone for their posts and mull over how I approach revisiting this with him, and decide what clear messages I need him to hear about the effect I feel it's having on him, me and us.

I truly believe people can't understand how difficult it is to pull back from someone after having sat by their bedside after they've been medically dead and revived.

For me, I remember a surreal night in A+E joking about the new red necklace my friend had treated herself to and would be wearing for at least the next week.

My ex wasn't medically dead. But I did spend nights in A&E with him ALONE at 16, his parents were out of the country, my mother knew where I was and didn't care or support me. One of the nights I sat outside by myself on the wall outside the hospital for hours digging through dirt in the flowerpots with my fingers .

I had one night in the house with him alone hiding keys, knives, laces, anything sharp while he was trying to self harm.

When I tried to break free his family phoned me as they essentially wanted me to look after him, so did his friends. I had a huge amount of pressure put on me. So I was conditioned at 16 to believe he was my problem to look after and he was my responsibility.

After I felt forced into agreeing to be his girlfriend I cried and cried.....

I was conditioned, brainwashed, kind of had stockholm syndrome too....but I eventually got free over a decade later.

During the months after we split up he threatened suicide constantly, made attempts, there was one particular day that I thought he was dead and that was the day that I was going to have to tell the kids their dad was dead.

I went through hell with him from such a young age, for years and years...

It only stopped when I detached and stopped enabling it.

During the months after we split up he threatened suicide constantly, made attempts, there was one particular day that I thought he was dead and that was the day that I was going to have to tell the kids their dad was dead.

Fucksake @Moser85 - mainly about enduring all that brainwashing & coercion as a teen.

But that quote!! - yeah, I get it.
My ex took enough time on one "attempt" to write 7 obnoxiously manipulative & self-pitying suicide notes to carefully selected friends/family.
Including his DAUGHTER.

He couldn't understand why this made me blisteringly angry, instead of rushing to his side to facilitate him for evermore ...

@KettrickenSmiled
Oh I got something like that too "I'm going to write a letter to the kids so they know I'm dead because of you". 😡

Sorry you went through similar too 💐

I feel that some of the mental health campaigns can be harmful to those who feel they have to look after people with poor mental health or who threaten suicide. It's all about that person, but there's nothing about the person/people who are having to look after them or on the receiving end of threats, even though many of the threats are just manipulation.

There needs to be more of a balance, because it's not an uncommon phenomenon at all. Many feel trapped because of their partners mental health or suicide threats!

I would love to see a prominent mental health campaign targeted at those who are on the other side, essentially along the lines of Be kind, but you're not responsible for keeping another person alive, seek professional help for that person rather than shoulder it alone kind of thing.....there needs to be a balance!

@Moser85 That is absolutely awful. Clearly overtly manipulative and it's crazy that no one tried to pull you back from the edge, but instead pushed you further into the hell you describe.

I would love to see a prominent mental health campaign targeted at those who are on the other side, essentially along the lines of Be kind, but you're not responsible for keeping another person alive, seek professional help for that person rather than shoulder it alone kind of thing.....there needs to be a balance!

Couldn't agree more. I had people around me looking after me while I looked after my friend. And looking after my friend was a group effort, not just me shouldering it.

Sadly the night in A&E I described, my friend wasn't considered enough of a risk to herself, discharged at 4am and the cycle began again the next day. Every door we banged on gave her 2 sessions at most with a professional after a too long wait. There isn't enough professional help to go around.

Dear OP - I don’t want to repeat what’s already been said but one thing struck me: that she refuses to get a professional support. The reason may be unknown; yet, it’s her choice, a questionable one. She has capacity to take responsibility for that choice. If she had your bf’s best interests at heart, surely she would not make him her only source of strength. You both are caring, decent people - that’s why it’s so difficult to step away from this situation. I think your bf needs to give himself the permission to share that responsibility with someone else, ideally with services that are designed to support people at risk to themselves.