Do gaslighters know they are gaslighting?

[Redcliffe1]

I have a friend- slightly complicated situation but FWB would be the nearest matching description. We have been friends for 3 years but don't meet very often.

I asked him about meeting a few weeks ago, he was going away so couldn't make it - np. Last week I was going to the movies so asked him if he wanted to come. He said could he let me know and then said he was a bit tired from the weekend- again np.

But on Sunday we had a long WhatsApp chat and he said I never had any time for him, I clearly don't care about him and I never ask about meeting. Like wtf? He was drunk and messaged me the next day to apologise but I'm so confused. He must know what he said wasn't true and I have the messages from him - I showed a friend the whole chat and he said I was being gaslighted which I guess is true but do gaslighters know they are doing it? They must do? What do you think?

Probably not! I think they get so wrapped up in themselves to notice anyone else and when they fee the other person hasn’t made enough effort they make contact - all about themselves.

Was there any ‘how are you? Miss you? Fancy a meet up?’ Type questions - if not - is he worth it?

In my experience they don't always know. I am very much not an expert, but I sometimes I think that it just develops as a learned behaviour - they may not consciously know they are being manipulative.

It isn't an excuse though! Did you ask him about what he said after he sobered up?

If he was gaslighting then he wouldn’t have apologised. He just said the wrong thing when drunk.

Of course they do.

Unless this guy was blitzed and forgot what he told you. But even then, hr would have looked over his prior messages surely.

Time to ditch this friend. He's a little bitch.

Yeah they know, they are trying infiltrate your memory to change your perspective about something, so they can't ever been seen in a negative light.

Gaslighting is always deliberate - it’s making you believe that you didn’t experience or aren’t experiencing something that you actually are experiencing, and it’s done to unsettle you. If they’re not doing that, it’s just plain old lying, whether or not they believe themselves. Some people lie so they can avoid blame for things. Some just lie compulsively. But most lying isn’t gaslighting, even though some people seem to think now that gaslighting just means telling lies.

Gaslighting = deliberately making you doubt your own point of view to manipulate you into accepting their version of events or coerce you into choices/beliefs which suit them.

What you had was a pissed guy forget he'd declined two meet-ups you had suggested and then apologise when he sobered up and realised he was wrong.
Just remind him you suggested two meet ups which he declined to check he realises, and unless he denies the truth of that you have a non-issue.

Well he said I was the right person at the wrong time and he does often message for a chat. I do like him as a friend- he's an interesting person. But he never asks about meeting- I have asked him why and he says I'm always busy which is pretty true tbf

I did ask him - he said he didn't mean it, he was pretty drunk and was going through some stuff which knowing him is probably true.

Lol - little bitch made me laugh. I'm happy to keep him as a friend- he's usually OK.

I wouldn't call that gaslighting, as I doubt he was trying to get you to doubt reality for some nefarious purposes. Far more likely he was saying it in the hopes you'd rush to reassure him by pointing out the truth. Manipulative and frustrating when he could have probably got what he needed by just telling you he was feeling in need of support/comfort/reassurance, or just waited for his paranoia to pass. But not really gaslighting.

My ex knew every time he gaslit me, it was always deliberate and always to make me feel like what I was remembering was incorrect. It drove me insane to the point of going to a mental hospital for an evaluation.

I believe gas-lighting is learned behaviour. I grew up with it and also did it until I realised and identified what it was I was doing. Until then, I didn't do it intentionally. Afterwards, I had to focus really hard on changing my behaviour to stop gas-lighting. Does that help?

Is it possible you weren't gaslighting, but that you were trying to protect yourself from further abuse? In a home where there is gaslighting, there is abuse. You may have grown up being hyper aware that anything you said or did could be used against you. As such, you had to be ready to change your story at a moments notice in the hopes it would protect you from whatever they were going to say next. For a quiet life. Possible?

The difference would be that ther would be no malicious intent there. You're not setting out to drive someone round the bend. Or to get one over on someone. So I wouldn't consider that gaslighting. Simply, a defense mechanism.

Not to say that toxic environments can't make us toxic too of course. But generally once we're away from there and around healthy people, we look back and go 'wtf was I doing?'. Where as usually the sort of people who gaslight, I would argue, don't tend to have the capacity to introspect and change like you did.

I think they know that they are lying or misleading you but they believe they have a right to be in control of the situation and make everything go in their favor?

No he's just lying . If you have ever been through true gaslighting you'd know it . It really destroys your reality and mental health. Gaslighters / Narcs never apologise for anything !

Harshly put but yes I think for the most part they are aware.
but they excuse themselves when they arewrong but then he diverts it, or says you are too sensitive or you need to move on etc or poor him he was drunk, confused, too scared etc can’t cope

either way ask yourself what the friendship is giving you?