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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please help

20 replies

JaneyGee · 27/03/2023 16:47

Not sure if this belongs in the relationships bit, since it's about my brother. Anyway, I need advice.

My brother is now in his 40s and lives with my mum in the family home. My dad is dead. My mum is 76.

My brother has had problems for years – depression, alcoholism, drugs, etc. We later found out that he'd been abused when young. He never said anything because he didn't want to hurt my parents. He's never had a proper job and has never paid National Insurance. My mother feels guilty about the abuse and so sort of takes care of him. He's happy about that, and kind of lives off of her (using her car, letting her buy the food, etc). She's happy since she has company and couldn't cope on her own, either emotionally or practically. Basically, it's a co-depedent mess. (Deep down, I know he'd like to leave, but he can't.)

My worry is what happens to my brother when my mum dies. He's never been registered as mentally ill, and has never claimed benefits of any kind. He's also never lived anywhere but a cosy family home in the countryside. If my mother were to die suddenly, the two of us would inherit the house and some money, which would leave him enough to buy a one bed flat somewhere. But what if my mother has to go into a nursing home with dementia or something? Where would my brother stand? Would he have any rights? I assume the council would take the house to pay for care costs and kick him out. I think he's got around twenty thousand in savings (left by grandparents), which wouldn't buy him a garden shed.

He seems to think he needn't worry about anything now, since the abuse is out in the open, which has been a weight off his mind (he told us in his 30s), and he's stopped the drinking and drugs. But he's naive about the brutal realities of life. Emotionally he'll be shattered when my mum dies. And he's immature when it comes to money. A single childless man isn't going to be a priority for social housing.

(He's a kind and loveable person btw, not a spoilt asshole like he sounds. He takes care of my mother, and he's been there for me whenever I've needed him. At least he's looking for a job, so that's something.)

OP posts:
frozendaisy · 27/03/2023 16:55

He will become your dependent OP.

category12 · 27/03/2023 17:00

I think you need to get him to claim universal credit even if he isn't entitled to much, because at least that would put credits towards his state pension. He's going to be proper fucked down the line without having paid any NI.

I think I would speak to Citizens Advice or something and work out what he needs to do.

category12 · 27/03/2023 17:14

If he'd count as a carer for your mum, he might be able to get National Insurance credits added to his record.

Ooonafoo · 27/03/2023 17:28

Does he have any hobbies or friends?

I think it would be good to ensure he builds up his social support network.

He also needs some therapy to deal with both the abuse and enmeshment with your mother.

I think she may have been potentially negligent here - or selfish?

Education, skills training or part time or volunteer work would ease him into connecting with others.

Cigarettesaftersex1 · 27/03/2023 17:32

frozendaisy · 27/03/2023 16:55

He will become your dependent OP.

Would he?!

Lovingmynewbicycle · 27/03/2023 17:35

Only if she let's him...

JaneyGee · 27/03/2023 17:45

Ooonafoo · 27/03/2023 17:28

Does he have any hobbies or friends?

I think it would be good to ensure he builds up his social support network.

He also needs some therapy to deal with both the abuse and enmeshment with your mother.

I think she may have been potentially negligent here - or selfish?

Education, skills training or part time or volunteer work would ease him into connecting with others.

Yes, I agree. My mother can be quite manipulative. Since my dad died, she's been (understandably) frightened. She's 76 now and has never lived on her own in her life. The house is in the countryside as well, so it would be quiet and isolated if he moved out. I know my brother would like to leave, but he feels trapped, which in turn means he has no incentive to work. For years he was dependent on my parents, now it's more my mother who is dependent on him. He's over the bad years (depression, drugs) and is like a different man, but the change has come too late.

Above all, he needs to get a proper, full time job and earn and save as much as possible. At least then he'd have something to fall back on. But my mother even played up when he began looking for full-time work (having anxiety attacks etc). It makes me really angry. She loves and worries about him, but doesn't consider what's going to happen to him when she dies.

OP posts:
JaneyGee · 27/03/2023 17:51

category12 · 27/03/2023 17:00

I think you need to get him to claim universal credit even if he isn't entitled to much, because at least that would put credits towards his state pension. He's going to be proper fucked down the line without having paid any NI.

I think I would speak to Citizens Advice or something and work out what he needs to do.

The NI thing worries me. He's so naive about this kind of stuff. As a result of the chaos years, and living on my parents, etc, he knows f-all about money, pensions, etc. I don't know where he'd stand regarding the house either. If my mother develops dementia, for example, would he have the right to stay in the family home? So far as I know, he'd have no rights at all, since he's under 60 and isn't registered as dependent or unable to work. If the house has to be sold to pay for care costs, would he be homeless? Neither my mother nor my brother will talk about this kind of thing. They just stick their heads in the sand. I can't see the housing association worrying too much about a single, healthy, childless man. And it's going to be an almighty shock to him to go from a comfy semi in rural Kent to a hostel or house share or something.

OP posts:
HagWithAtt · 27/03/2023 18:06

I think you can pay a few of the previous years of NI contributions - I think your brother should do this, and should make sure he's contributing from now on (either through getting benefits or working).

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 27/03/2023 18:20

Could your mum sell up where she is and move into a new house with your brother, with him named as 50% owner on the deeds? If they could move somewhere with more transport links etc as well it would be better for his job and social prospects too.

Disclaimer: I have no idea if this would work in reality so she'd need solid financial advice, but my belief is that your brother would still be left with 50% of the house even if her half goes on care fees. And if they chose carefully it might even be possible to avoid the need for her to go into care i.e. picking a bungalow that could be easily adapted for wheelchair use.

mrmr1 · 27/03/2023 18:23

You should be thinking about getting power of Attorney and so you have some control over things.

Lovingmynewbicycle · 27/03/2023 20:04

I'd make an appointment with the CAB to discuss options.

But it is important that he comes along. It's time he grows up.

I agree about getting POA.

Ooonafoo · 27/03/2023 22:23

JaneyGee · 27/03/2023 17:45

Yes, I agree. My mother can be quite manipulative. Since my dad died, she's been (understandably) frightened. She's 76 now and has never lived on her own in her life. The house is in the countryside as well, so it would be quiet and isolated if he moved out. I know my brother would like to leave, but he feels trapped, which in turn means he has no incentive to work. For years he was dependent on my parents, now it's more my mother who is dependent on him. He's over the bad years (depression, drugs) and is like a different man, but the change has come too late.

Above all, he needs to get a proper, full time job and earn and save as much as possible. At least then he'd have something to fall back on. But my mother even played up when he began looking for full-time work (having anxiety attacks etc). It makes me really angry. She loves and worries about him, but doesn't consider what's going to happen to him when she dies.

This is really sad.

Your brother deserves so much more than to be her carer for potentially another twenty years.

He has had his childhood and adulthood MH hijacked by abuse and has come through that.

I wouldn’t indulge or enable her manipulation and exploitation of him.

Does he drive?

Can she start to go to day centre activities herself?

I would be encouraging him to chip away to achieve independence with hobbies, volunteering, part time work etc.

He really needs to reclaim his life.

She has had hers - a marriage, children etc

Lizzy1328 · 28/03/2023 06:12

It's his home so can't be used to pay for nursing home fees if he's under 65 I don't think.

Lizzy1328 · 28/03/2023 06:13

It's counter intuitive to make someone else homeless.

JaneyGee · 28/03/2023 11:39

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 27/03/2023 18:20

Could your mum sell up where she is and move into a new house with your brother, with him named as 50% owner on the deeds? If they could move somewhere with more transport links etc as well it would be better for his job and social prospects too.

Disclaimer: I have no idea if this would work in reality so she'd need solid financial advice, but my belief is that your brother would still be left with 50% of the house even if her half goes on care fees. And if they chose carefully it might even be possible to avoid the need for her to go into care i.e. picking a bungalow that could be easily adapted for wheelchair use.

Thanks. That's interesting. I will look into it.

It would be the sensible thing to do. Besides, the garden is too big for her now. But persuading her to leave will be difficult. I know my brother would like to. For him it's like living in a goldfish bowl. All the neighbours know about him and his past, and so he generally keeps to himself (which is the last thing he should be doing). Unfortunately, my mother has lived there for 50 years (she pretty much left home, moved in with my dad, and has been there ever since). In fact, she's never lived more than a couple of miles from where she was born, and has never lived alone. My dad was an insular, anti-social man, who pushed people away, and consequently my mother has few friends. She never lived abroad, or went away to university, or anything like that either. So you have this bereaved 76-year-old woman, who has never lived alone, clinging to the house in which she feels safe.

She also clings to my brother. And what makes me angry is that she makes out she's looking after him. A couple of years ago, he signed up for a course that could have led to a job, and she really played up – having anxiety attacks, etc. She wasn't faking btw. She just can't cope with change. She nursed both her parents through ghastly cancers, and then my dad died, and these traumas, in quick succession, led to depression and anxiety (from which she never recovered).

OP posts:
Ooonafoo · 28/03/2023 12:24

JaneyGee · 28/03/2023 11:39

Thanks. That's interesting. I will look into it.

It would be the sensible thing to do. Besides, the garden is too big for her now. But persuading her to leave will be difficult. I know my brother would like to. For him it's like living in a goldfish bowl. All the neighbours know about him and his past, and so he generally keeps to himself (which is the last thing he should be doing). Unfortunately, my mother has lived there for 50 years (she pretty much left home, moved in with my dad, and has been there ever since). In fact, she's never lived more than a couple of miles from where she was born, and has never lived alone. My dad was an insular, anti-social man, who pushed people away, and consequently my mother has few friends. She never lived abroad, or went away to university, or anything like that either. So you have this bereaved 76-year-old woman, who has never lived alone, clinging to the house in which she feels safe.

She also clings to my brother. And what makes me angry is that she makes out she's looking after him. A couple of years ago, he signed up for a course that could have led to a job, and she really played up – having anxiety attacks, etc. She wasn't faking btw. She just can't cope with change. She nursed both her parents through ghastly cancers, and then my dad died, and these traumas, in quick succession, led to depression and anxiety (from which she never recovered).

Your mother can be supported to get through her anxiety with professional help and it shouldn’t be a reason to hijack your brothers life.

Lovingmynewbicycle · 28/03/2023 12:28

Precisely.

@JaneyGee - the psychological reasonings are of course valuable. But in my view it is more important to focus on resolving the practical issues.

Gingergirl70 · 28/03/2023 12:44

I think both your mum and your brother could benefit from some (separate) counselling. The act of the abuse and then the telling/discovery of it within the family would obviously have had a profound effect on both of them (and yourself, of course). No matter how illogical it might seem now he's in his 40s, maybe your mum feels your brother will somehow be hurt again if he has too much freedom or she 'lets' him have a life on his own. She'll feel guilty about what happened to him and that she couldn't protect him and is maybe going way over top now to over compensate.
Does your brother have any diagnosis for anxiety, depression, learning difficulties or anything that he could maybe claim benefits for? Or if he just claimed UC, people at job centre can then start helping with courses and getting into some type of employment. As soon as he gets a little experience and confidence, it may spur him on to lead a more independent life.
How physically mobile is your mum? Can you not look into groups/hobbies that she may enjoy outside the home with people her own age to encourage her own independence and confidence?

category12 · 29/03/2023 18:21

I'd look into getting him National Insurance credits as her carer in the meantime, at least it'd be something.

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