How would you deal with dp constantly managing expectations to his benefit?

[TickleChops]

We have been together almost 5 years now, we live together, we're both over 50, both divorced, own adult kids etc. Generally a v happy relationship but one thing that is absolutely driving me mad is his inability to be entirely truthful about situations where he thinks it would be easier for him not to tell the truth.

I'll give you an example. Dp has various things he's doing that will mean he's away from Weds to Sunday. So I suggested yesterday we go out for dinner tonight as we won't see each other for a few days. I happened to walk past his laptop this morning on my way out the door to work and his diary was open and I noticed he had meetings in another city till 730pm. Given where this city is, he's not going to get back here till 9pm which is too late to then go out. I didn't raise it with him as he had taken a phone call and I was starting my commute.

I get a message from him around 4pm saying how he's looking forward to dinner tonight and he'll see me at 7pm. Didn't think anything of it as I was busy all day and then of course, I've just had a call from him saying 'oh sorry, his boss has been really difficult and he needs to stay till 730pm'. I said err yes well I saw that in your diary when I walked past this morning - at which point he just mumbled something about how I must have looked at the wrong day because the meeting was only just arranged etc. etc. bullshit bullshit.

Honestly, if he had said yesterday when I suggested dinner that he couldn't do it, I would have been fine with it. But i KNOW he agreed because it's what he thought I wanted to hear and it was just easier to say yes knowing full well he was never going to make it.

There are just little incidents like this time and time again. I find it disrespectful - like he's managing me if you see what I mean and I'm part of some overall picture where he's trying to get away with what he wants to do all the time. I actually feel a bit used like he's played a deliberate trick on me.

I've confronted him about it repeatedly. But he keeps on doing it. Other than saying enough is enough and walking away, which seems a shame as everything else is ok, is there any other way I can deal with it? It's really starting to wind me up!

But if he lies to you when the stakes are so low, what would he do when telling the truth might actually be hurtful to you? At what point do you think he'd decide that something was 'too meaningful to lie about'? Would it be in precisely the same place as where you would put it? Because if not, he's likely going to lie, at some point, about something that will really hurt you.

I couldn't risk it.

Fair point @TickleChops he could agree to marry and then pull out at the very last minute, jilting his bride at the altar, that sort of thing?

I didn't meant for it to come across as that rigid, I sort of meant that it is a very difficult habit to break as you need to learn to say "no" and feel OK with it and feel OK about the reaction of the other person. It might be that the work OP would need to put into making him feel safe is too much for her. And fair enough, not everyone has the patience and she has the right to say "sod it". Yes, he is the problem but it needs cooperation of both sides to solve it. It's up to OP to decide whether she wants to do it or not.

@Wakemeup17 yes that makes sense. I hope you don’t feel criticised. It sounds like you have a high level of self awareness and are able to articulate your difficulties to loved ones.
That sort of openness and cooperation (from both sides like you say) would help their relationship massively I would think.

He is overstating his own importance and expecting you to be sooo grateful he can even fit you in op...

Whatever his reasoning anxiety, convience, avoidance, he is very comfortable lying.

Small white lies to some, but IMO absolutely consistently lying.

I'm with @Watchkeys it isn't something I would accept because I value honesty.

I would find being managed, let down at the last minute and generally messed about, just too disrespectful.

His blustering when challenged would give me the Ick.

It really is down to how much you value yourself and honesty in a relationship.

It sounds to me he is so emotionally fragile that he can't deal with real life. I couldn't trust someone like this to be a partner in bad times.

I empathise a little with your partner.
I can be an awful people pleaser and find myself agreeing to do things that are really inconvenient for me or not giving my honest opinion to avoid hurting someone’s feelings.

I suppose this behaviour is a very extreme version of that pathological need to please others.

The difficulty is that your partner isn’t owning it. He’s not attributing this (odd impulse to agree to do things he can’t fulfil) to his anxiety.

Things would definitely improve if this was hauled out in the open and you both found ways to accommodate his anxiety over “letting you down”. The irony is of course, you feel far worse when he eventually confesses he can’t fulfil all his engagements.

It sounds like there’s no malice or intent in his pretty harmless lies and half truths, just difficulty saying No .

I have a DP like this. Literally drove me crazy over the years and it is always borne out of optimism (says he will will be back by 5 and he doesn't rock up until 7) or anxiety/not wanting to let people down. We've been together 18 years and are still relatively happy. The good news is with trust and faith they get better but it took me years. The bad news is he hasn't totally changed. He does it to his customers too. I hear him make excuses for why he couldn't make an appt when really I know he's just running late or double booked himself or misjudged his timings again.

Ultimately I accept this about him. I know where he is because he's open about that and I know at his core he is always late Cause he stops to give his customers his ear, goes the extra mile for everyone and talks to people he meets in his day. At his core he is kind but unfortunately not always reliable with time.

So for me, I don't make plans that require him to be on time very often. I just 'allow' for it and try to set him up to succeed. I also don't get involved if he's making his own plans. I don't clear up his mess but I don't give him a hard time either. I used to nag him and argue with him and fight about it. Now I just accept him and when I do ring and he's running late, I just accept it. I realised the pressure I put on him made it worse, not better. And you know what? He's a lot better these days. Especially with me. He understands I need him to treat me with respect and that needs honesty. I'm not a customer, I'm his partner. I understand he's a work in progress.

My approach is not very Mumsnet but I'm in no way perfect and he puts up with plenty of my shit too so it works for us.

@reluctantadmissions I love how you’ve grown together and worked at accommodating each other’s foibles (perhaps his more than yours !)

Lets face it, everyone’s a bit mad, we’re all a product of our upbringing and experiences and we all have hang ups and weaknesses. Most people are in fact well intentioned when you look deeper.

If he’s lying to you about small things, he will also lie to you about bigger things too. You just haven’t caught him out in a big lie yet.

Liars don’t change imo. This is who he is and over time he will completely erode your trust.

I think you need to spell out to him what's happening and how it makes you feel, e.g. "You said you were looking forward to dinner and then cancelled last minute. You knew that you wouldn't be able to make it all along. I appreciate you maybe didn't want to disappoint me by saying you couldn't do dinner, but doing this is actually worse, because you got my hopes up first." If you want, you could add that technically, he's lying to you.

I had a somewhat similar situation with my husband, where he'd try to spare my feelings but ended up making things worse. I found it really annoying because it meant I couldn't trust what he was saying. It's taken a long time (and I might not always have been particularly sympathetic) but it's much better now. I sometimes just ask if he's being honest or pretending and I'll find out what's actually going on in a few days. God, I sound like a right bitch! I always knew something was up though, but he'd keep denying it... So annoying!

He sounds desperately insecure and a people pleaser. Doing it to you is so weak and shit, but actually doing it at work is mind-blowingly stupid.

It sounds like he doesn’t want to disappoint you by telling you he can’t do things he knows you want to do. Perhaps speaks to a lack of confidence and being a bit of a people pleaser rather than a liar?

Oh no, I know it's shit for the partners who are confident and don't understand what's going on and just want straight answers :)
The solution to this was to find a partner who's similar to me in that regard. But becasue he is aware of this too, we give each other space and are very careful not to put pressure on each other and it has worked so far. Maybe the downside is that the relationship has "no drive" and it looks from the outside like we are not really committed but the freedom to walk away and change my mind at any time has helped me a lot and given me a lot of confidence and safety.

Does he know why he does it. I’m wondering about his upbringing and what happened if he said no. As it sounds like he is people pleasing then it backfires?

Ha, thank you. It's far from perfect but hell we don't expect as much from others in our lives. Ultimately he's his own person just as I am. It's taken us years though to find this balance.

There are cultures where it's seen as perfectly acceptable and commonplace to lie to someone's face to avoid conflict. The fact that it just kicks the can down the road seems to not be a factor.

He lies to you. So you don't know if he'll lie about 'major' things. He might, but you just haven't noticed yet. The problem with lying, is that you can never trust that person. Even if they 'only' lie 1% of the time, you don't know which 1% it is.

If this is about not wanting to let you down then that's really immature as well as dishonest, but also very short sighted. As you pointed out, he did let you down, but much worse.

If he's great in every other way, I'd have a serious conversation, tell him that every time he lies he damages your ability to trust him, and your relationship, a little bit more, and at some point there'll be nothing left worth staying for. Ultimately, you will have to decide if you want to stay with someone who treats you like this.

I have a family member who lies in a very similar way. It's affected their relationship with lots of people over the years, and everyone knows what they're like, and just assumes they're lying rather than take things at face value.

A lie is something that's said by someone who knows it's not true. It doesn't matter why. If he lies because he's a people pleaser, he's saying what he wants to say, to meet his needs. If it was actually pleasing OP, she wouldn't be here, so it's not about meeting her needs.

He's lying, and it's to his own advantage. If he's not got the confidence to be truthful about the fact that he can't meet OP because he's got a meeting with his boss, I wonder what he does have the confidence to do. It's hardly an act of bravery to admit something like that. What if something happened that actually would concern OP? Would he lie then? Maybe.

I couldn't have a relationship with that 'maybe'.

DH does this too. He will say yes wanting to avoid a conflict at that moment, and I think he is hoping that something will happen so he can make it. But that’s usually not what happens of course, so I end up far more annoyed than if he’d said no at the start (when I could have made alternative plans).

He does it to clients/colleagues too - eg he won’t put on out of office when we’re away but will try to reply to emails as if he were at work. Just means they get annoyed he’s not as responsive as usual while I get annoyed he’s glued his phone on holiday. Would be far better to be honest with everyone.

It’s conflict avoidance I think. DH grew up in a house where nobody argues ever (they just do passive aggressive instead 🙄)