Tips for talking about money in a second relationship

[choixduroi]

Very appreciative of your advice on this. How do you deal not just with different levels of income but the different attitudes to money?

I'm divorced after 16 year marriage, am mid 40s with two teenagers. I work full time in a professional job and have my own flat (with mortgage). I am comfortable but have to be more careful than when I was married (Ex-DH earned a lot).

Been with my current DP 3 years, he lives over 2 hours away and has a son, so we see each other every other weekend and holidays. He could not be more caring, loving and great, and feel very happy with him and lucky to have met him. However I notice that he has a completely different attitude to money. He grew up under Communism until he was 18 and his family had very little, and he has always worked in the social sector as his basic motivation is helping people, and he used to not having much money, budgeting carefully, and also not expecting much financially from life and enjoying simple things. I was also brought up by a very frugal, canny single Mum and we didn't have a lot, however she became a university lecturer and we always owned our own home, and because I worked abroad with ex husband etc, we were always very comfortable. I try to work towards pay rises and have a basic attitude that I will have enough. DP due to his upbringing would be very unlikely to ever ask for a pay rise, it would have to be offered. He just doesn't have an attitude that he deserves much, whereas I have the attitude that I deserve reasonable nice stuff (basically I am a child of capitalism I guess).

DP and I have no need to share finances in general, but we do want to go on holiday this year. My instinct is to jump in and pay for everything, I know he won't want that, as when we went last year I paid for it, and he insisted on knowing how much it was and then gave me his share, and I then worried because I think it was too much for him. I think I earn about 30% more than him but we have never directly discussed that. We have never talked about how much money we have. I know he generally feels frustrated as would like to spoil me much more than he is able to. I fully understand that his financial position is not as good as mine - though not terrible - and I'm absolutely fine with it, I am with him because he is a lovely person and I'm not money-driven myself. However I have grown to appreciate the comforts of life and would not want to give them up.

This is quite confused, but now holidays are looming again, and at some point we will merge our lives more, do you have any advice on how to have good conversations about money and goals in life, especially if the other person simply has a completely different approach? It doesn't help that we are both major conflict avoiders who are anxious about broaching tricky subjects. But I have to move beyond that - it was one of the reasons that destroyed my marriage before - have to learn to be a bit more honest and open.

You have to let him pay half. That's fair on both if you. He made that clear last year and it's fair.

More of an issue is potential different wants from the holiday? You want a 4* hotel and he wants to camp?! Or have you already sorted that bit?

Maybe ask him what his budget is, what kind of holiday he prefers... Maybe consider a trip for yourself with your DC as an extra holiday if you can afford it. Also maybe encourage him to listen to friends socially who can share their stories of asking for payrises and feeling valued at work - might help him develop the confidence to discuss pay progression at work.

After 3 years don't you find it worrying that you haven't been able to talk about money in a normal casual way. If you are thinking that you might possibly end up living together you really need to both be comfortable discussing finances, especially as you both have kids. You've focused on the holiday but think about all the other financial issues that you will have to face in future.

I think the best thing to do is to start talking to him about it. He sounds like a decent man and it sounds like you have a good relationship so there is no need to be too shy to talk about money.

Thanks! @bumpytrumpy yes - his main summer holiday for the past 20 years has been to go to the same campsite by the same seaside area (northern Europe) with a group of friends. Which is great but camping not for me (actually a lot of their wives/partners also don't come so it's more the guys and kids). I am someone who prefers to see different places. I have gone to his holiday place twice with my kids, my son camped with him and his son and I stayed in a b and b with my (slightly pernickety) DD. And frankly found it pretty stressful. The best trips we've had have been, unsurprisingly I guess, just the two of us. He has not travelled as much as me and is not very good at navigating being somewhere new. I don't want to make it sound like I am some go getting globe trotter and he is a terrified country mouse but in some ways this is true. However we get on very well and have so much positive energy between us - it's a matter of communicating and acknowledging our differences. I am maybe a bit set in my ways, if I go somewhere I want to stay in a nice hotel, not 5 star, my ideal is somewhere really cute and authentic run by a nice family who overshare dramatic stories or whatever. But comfortable, and eating good food, not worrying about costs every minute. I am very aware of that being a privilege, but I still don't want to give it up! He does shake me out of my fear with a lot of things, and gets me to try new stuff, but he has his own fears as well. I think it's also just the adjustment after years of maybe tense, but definitely plush family holidays.

Thanks@MacarenaMacarena , good advice. I take kids back to the UK 1-2 times a year and planning a holiday with them in the summer for a week, undecided where yet. I think the issue is that I want DP to have great experiences and have that feeling of comfort and seeing the world which I value so highly, he is a bit like the nice person who doesn't push themselves forward and doesn't get much, and I want to give him all that, what he missed as a child. But maybe I have to realise that this is all too much and weird and not fair, and that I don't need to overcompensate. He really loves me for exactly what I am and I think honestly is slightly bemused. I can't help thinking though, that if it was the other way round and I was the man, it wouldn't seem socially strange at all (like if I had met a banker who was whisking me off to wherever). On pay rises etc, yes that's a good idea. I don't want to push the issue as I don't want him to think it's an issue for me. It's also in a way a wish to protect him, I can see that he works really hard and gets little reward and I just want to see him rewarded. Oh god, writing all this has opened up new avenues, I hadn't realised I felt so strongly about it all!! 🤔

@JustKeepGoingThere yes you're right. We do need to talk about it. I think I've just been very very careful and cautious after marriage breakup etc, and I am quite avoidant about talking about any issues that could be a problem. But working on that.. I would like to marry him, but would like to ensure that my kids inherit most of what I have (e.g. if I have a house he could live in it forever but when he passed away it would go to my kids), whilst sharing everything with him day to day. Maybe that sounds selfish and awful and because I think it does, that alone stops me ever wanting to raise the issue of marriage because I would be worried he would think I was a terrible person.

Just to be clear I would absolutely understand if he wanted his assets to eventually go to his son, in fact I would feel more comfortable if we agreed that.

In my experience compromise is the worst of both worlds.

Why don’t you tell him your ideal of a great holiday, ask for his and then suggest hat he pays for ‘his’ holiday for you all and you pay for ‘yours’ or do it biannually? That way everyone gets what they want and no one has to feel beholden to paying half of what wasn’t their idea.

Thanks @Fluffyowl00 . So reading the replies here I thought, maybe it is a bit ridiculous that we've never openly talked about money, so I asked him how much he earns and told him what I earn. Turns out I earn exactly double. He works in the social sector and is pretty badly paid, but gets by. We discussed that a fair way would be to contribute to holidays as a proportion of our incomes, which I feel is completely fair. It kind of makes it easier that we don't (yet) live together and won't likely do so until kids are out of the house (about 4-5 years), but I am now feeling a bit paranoid after reading that thread about low earning male partners. Not that he would exploit me or anyone else - he is literally the most caring and un-money focused person ever (hence doing the job he is doing), I sense that he is frustrated because he would like to treat me more and hates feeling powerless to do that. He always brings me expensive flowers when we see each other, insists on paying in cafes for example, and I feel guilty. He is going for a job interview for a leadership role in the same sector and I can already tell that he will find it almost impossible to properly negotiate on salary, due to his upbringing in a socialist country (he is over 50) he just assumes you get a low salary, you get told what it is, and then you have to 'make do'. Someone owes him money and he is very inefficient getting it back. Basically he is a bit too nice and unworldly.

We just passed the 3 years together mark, so I suppose that's why things are getting more real or at least at the stage where you start to think 'could this be really really serious and do I have any concerns'. I don't have any concerns as to his love for me, being a good person, completely honest and dedicated, always makes a major effort with everything, similar values to me, hilarious and great at sex as well as affectionate, a good father to his son, gets on with my kids etc. But I do have some concerns thinking that he is not able to maximise his income very much, his expectations of material things are low, and that the effect will be that my quality of life will suffer, I will have to be the main breadwinner etc etc. It sounds awful and selfish to write that but it does make me feel worried and slightly resentful. Should I get over myself and just communicate with him openly and we can solve this?

Never pay for everything no matter how poor your partner is. They eventually don't respect you if you do this. And then become disrespectful. Why should you anywY your have your own life and expenses.
Don't emasculated him.

I think all expenses should be halved. You are more and you have an extra child. You don't earn so much more that you can afford to pay for him.

Thanks!
Just to clarify, right now we don't live together so our only financial discussions are around holidays, meals out etc, when we see each other (two weekends a month). So far we had the policy that when I'm visiting him in his city, he pays for stuff and when he's visiting here, I pay. It's come up more with holidays that we have together (not with kids, with just us 2), where we agreed generally I would pay more. If we paid exactly half we wouldn't be able to do anything that good to be honest, as he just doesn't have that much income. It is a tricky one. I feel like in society it is much more acceptable if it is the guy earning more and paying for more, that makes it even more uncomfortable. I don't want it to come between us.

I think you and he should talk more. You’re making a lot of assumptions and I’m not sure they are all based in reality. In addition, it sounds like you view him as a project, ‘if only he was paid more’ bla bla bla. The disparity is not only a financial one, your attitude is quite patronising.

Just to be clear, I am happy with him as he is and certainly don't see him as any kind of project, I would not be with someone who was not fundamentally sorted and was running their life. I feel angry on his behalf because he is a bit too nice and is not at all pushy, so yes I feel like he is under rewarded. It's not about him earning a specific amount but more like feeling he doesn't get his full dues. I also realise that it's not up to me to 'fix' that. It's more that this being my first serious relationship since my marriage, and starting to think it could be a permanent arrangement, these things are important especially as we both have kids. You're absolutely right that communication is key.