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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Are you currently cheating on someone?

12 replies

user102015 · 26/02/2023 13:52

Bit of a taboo topic i know. Don't know how many honest answers we will get.

I'm of the opinion that if you're not happy, you should leave. I also know that life isnt always so black and white (but still not an excuse), For example, my auntie had an affair years ago because she fell in love with someone else. Fast forward 20 years and the "affair partner" is now her husband and they have 2 kids together. I'd like to think id NEVER cheat on anyone.

So are you currently cheating? Why are you cheating and what do you expect to get out of it?

OP posts:
HowRatherGolly · 26/02/2023 16:37

I always find these questions rather strange.

Anyone choosing to lie, in whatever scenario, is dishonest.

You will never know, ever, what the person who chooses to have an affair is also dishonest about, because someone who can hide a whole other life from a loved one is a big deceiver, they are likely to take other kind of risks in life, not just affairs, there will be behavior's that are likely to be questionable. Such as gambling, money issues, no contact with children they have left with the ex, lack of morals on every front, a self driven desire to serve one self and thats that.

It takes a gutless individual to lie/cheat. If someone is in a relationship where they are not having their needs met, not happy or otherwise just meh, then there are options out there, like open relationships, if that suits. Or simply show a moral ground and be upfront with their partner prior to making a life/lie with someone new while in a relationship. Once a cheat its impossible to attempt to be someone anyone can trust, people will always question you. So, there you have it.

Cheating is normally not a one off thing. Its a lifestyle for some, the chase of the thrill my ex use to say, and normally they end up on their own as only a small percentage will go on to have a blissful life with their affair partner. And if you do end up taking someone on who you know cheats, or has a shady past, you will always worry that you are opening up a vacancy for that new chase, you will never win with a cheater. And regardless of what you do if you do find yourself in such a relationship, you will never change them. They will lie to you and you will never know what their truth looks like.

It really takes the piss

AnneLovesGilbert · 26/02/2023 16:43

Are you writing an article? Weird question.

Oopsiedaisyy · 26/02/2023 16:54

No, I'm not.

I did have an, affair though and nothing is black and white, at the time I thought I was doing the one thing I could to save my sanity and not break up my children's family

OldTinHat · 26/02/2023 16:54

Journo alert...

Thewookiemustgo · 26/02/2023 17:42

Life is not black and white, no. But personal choices are. Should I do this or not? There’s never a grey area in that.
We try to blur the issue and add the grey ourselves when we want to do something we know is wrong, and we add the word “but” to it. E.g “I know cheating is wrong but my wife/ husband just isn’t as attentive towards me as this person.” Now life is more complicated therefore I can’t be blamed for what I want to do…..

Black and white shows up here, pretty simple really, just a choice. Do it or don’t, but it’s your choice. Nobody’s forcing you:

Shall I text him or not? Shall we meet up or not? Nothing grey about any of this. Is infidelity right or wrong? Is it ok to betray someone or not? Is it ok to gaslight someone or not? Is it ok to break the terms of a mutually agreed monogamous relationship or not?

We love a bit of grey to cloud the issue and make it easier for us to go against even our own once cherished principles. Even in politics it happens. Clear choice, made grey. “I didn’t inhale…” “I got ambushed by cake….” All black and white at the time of making the choices.

jsku · 26/02/2023 17:54

I think the mantra of - ‘if you aren’t happy - just leave’ - is naive and based on fairy tales and/or young adult romance novels….

If you are a teenager/young person and dating someone - yes, of course. It’s easy to live by that and just leave.
Once you are in a long term relationship, with intertwined finances and lives - it’s harder.
And it becomes increasingly harder once there are kids, and if one partner has given up work to raise them.

Mix in into the whole ‘I am not happy’ - other factors that potentially can make us unhappy - hormones, depression, post partum, ageing - and one needs to be quite sure about what problem they are trying to fix. If is the relationship making them unhappy - it can it be something else…
And whether separation is actually going to make one happier. Or will disturbing kids lives; worsening yours and their living situation; struggling financially (as often happens); etc - is actually going to be worse it.

Life is not black and white.

Obv - we are talking about regular levels of ‘unhappiness’ most of us experience every now and then.
In situation if abuse and violence - colours are quite sharp and clear.

JustGraduated · 26/02/2023 18:25

I’m not cheating right now but am ashamed to say I have in the past.

I started university with my school bf (together 4 years) we’d agreed to try long distance when we went different ways and I genuinely went there with no intention of cheating.

Skip forward to the end of freshers week (basically 2 weeks) and I’d already been with 3 guys (1 I knew from before at school)

Like I say I’m not proud of it and realised I couldn’t do this to him so I had to tell him what I’d done.

Thewookiemustgo · 26/02/2023 22:47

@jsku no, absolutely it’s harder to leave if lives are entwined and children are involved, but that still doesn’t excuse not doing it.
It’s incredibly entitled to decide that just because it’s harder to leave and easier to allow your partner to think you’re still committed, that means it’s ok to deceive someone else just to make yourself happy.
When my husband had an affair, my ignorance of what he was doing meant I was actually, unbeknownst to me, facilitating it by caring for our family as usual, thinking he was keeping his commitment to us. I was used and lied to because it was easier for him to live on Fantasy Island than sort out his issues and personal bullshit than to leave. He should have just left, no matter how difficult. That really isn’t the stuff of fairy tales or young adult romance novels, it’s the grown up adult responsible and fair thing to do.

It isn’t naive at all to say ‘just leave’. It’s morally the right choice.
How hard or easy something is doesn’t make it any less right or wrong or excuse but following through. It either is or it isn’t the right thing to do.
What’s naive is to assume it’s easy to just leave. But just leave you most definitely should. Just because something is difficult doesn’t mean it’s ok to sidestep it to suit yourself, if avoiding difficulties for you involves the abuse of others.

Rose424 · 27/02/2023 12:11

Really interesting points you make @Thewookiemustgo especially the part about it either is or it isn't the right thing to do (to leave).
Not that I've ever been in a position of being married and cheating on the side, but I would guess that the cheater genuinely doesn't know in most cases what the right thing to do is, because they base 'right' thing not on morality, but on what will serve them the best?
It's probable that sometimes the cheater will enjoy their marriage more and sometimes they will enjoy their affair more. Probably what happens is that when they're with their spouse, they enjoy their marriage. And when they're with their AP they enjoy their affair.
The dice is loaded though because a marriage is more likely to be mundane because of life stuff so the cheater will think that they have more fun with their AP, who they see for shorter period of time, often under more 'fun' circumstances.
Then I would guess it's not a leap to start complaining about your spouse to your AP who is, of course, able to present the best version of themselves.
e.g. the cheating husband might say to his AP 'She moaned today that I didn't put the bin out', and the AP will go 'what a cow', or 'well, she could put it out', or 'oh poor you, come here and have a kiss'.
Frankly, you're not going to be cleaning out the bin with your AP, are you?!
I would love to be in the mind of an ex betrayer who suddenly realises what an arse they were because they had not been comparing like for like.
Do they remember the value of their spouse?
Are they remembering something which now no longer exists entirely, because being cheated on can irrevocably change a person.
A cheater destroys something, always, I think.

Thewookiemustgo · 27/02/2023 12:53

@Rose424 agreed, and everything you said still doesn’t mean the cheater had temporarily lost the ability to tell between right or wrong. Cheating is a choice. Do it or don’t, but don’t pretend it’s anything else than a simple choice: ‘but it’s not black and white’ ‘but life’s not like that’ ‘but it’s more complicated than that’ is just saying ‘I find it very hard to do the right thing, despite being fully aware that what I am doing is wrong, if doing the right thing thwarts my desires and means I don’t get to do what I want and I need to somehow justify this.’
As far as anyone really can, I got into the mind of my ex-cheating husband who knows exactly that, that he was a total arse who had lost sight of everything he loved and valued, including himself. The trip to the Land Of Oz continued as long as reality never intruded. Whenever it did, he felt guilty and shitty and so redesigned reality and everyone in it to make illicit trips to Oz, whilst knowing they were wrong, justifiable given his newly found victim status. My good points got minimised or ignored, my bad points got magnified, his AP’s good points got exaggerated, her faults minimised. The marriage he actually enjoyed coming home to, the wife he took out because he liked her company and still slept with and had sex with, whom at all times he thought was a good mother and good wife, became his tedious trap when he was with the AP. His wife became the ungrateful harridan he was forced by duty and because of his children to endure. The very much alive marriage at home became dead when he was in a hotel and he described it to his AP. Eventually he invested more in that relationship and less in ours, which was when he became moody and distant at home and I noticed and started questioning. My questioning and his distance at home became confirmation that I was interfering and even controlling, home was a cold place with a wife who wouldn’t leave him alone. Confirmation bias meant he actually started believing his own fabricated justifications and rewrote our relationship, rewrote me, reimagined his own future. Leaving me wasn’t a huge mistake, which would devastate everyone including his children, it was an obvious choice and final bid for freedom from this awful life he was trapped in. His AP was his light and saviour, ready to rescue this poor man-victim from the clutches of drudgery at home and a cold, ungrateful and neglectful wife. When I found out he admits that the thing he was most surprised by was this: he didn’t want to lose me. He admits that he thought it was dead between us, thought if I ever found out he would just leave and go to her. He was terrified that he realised that he literally in that moment didn’t know his own mind, couldn’t fathom why suddenly his light and saviour, the woman he saw as his bright shiny new future, morphed into a huge problem threatening his whole life. Where had the love he thought he had for her evaporated to? Why didn’t he feel relief that I finally knew and he could leave? Why did he no longer want to leave? He couldn’t believe it. Then followed the horrible realisation that he was a sham, a fake, a liar, had betrayed those he loved. It nearly killed him. And it was all his fault. Nowhere to hide, no excuses would stack up, he couldn’t look himself in the mirror any more.
It’s absolutely possible to love somebody and bury it to avoid horrible emotions like guilt and shame, to tell yourself and others lies to justify wrongdoing and get so carried away in your mindset that when you realise you’ve made a colossal error of judgment and compromised your own values and belief system, all your carefully self-justifying bullshit no longer stacks up and collapses when reality makes you stop believing it any more. Try a book called ‘Mistakes were made, but not by me’. It’s not about infidelity, it’s about bias and justifications and prejudices which shape our belief systems and show that many perfectly rational people are absolutely capable of ending up somewhere they never thought they would and can’t really explain why or how.
Every time we hear ourselves justifying our position or views or beliefs or words or actions, we all need to ask ourselves of they come from fact or opinions or outside sources, peer pressure, our upbringing. On what grounds are we basing our self-justifications? Many affairs would never get going of those involved examined their self-justifications which back up their excuses for their poor choices and behaviour. The worst lies we tell are those we tell ourselves.

Rose424 · 27/02/2023 13:48

@Thewookiemustgo such an eloquent post. Thank you.

I think I was similarly reimagined. It was hard to tell at the time, so sure I was of my own reality.
Some interactions I'd had with his family members I had previously found odd - and had written off as arising from their own idiosyncrasies - started to make more sense to me. But in a shocking way. When I realised that he may have told them awful things about me which weren't true, but could feasibly sound true if he had put a spin on it.
I assume to this day that they must still believe I was not a very good wife.
I think that makes it easier for them to accept what he did.

Thewookiemustgo · 27/02/2023 15:01

@Rose424 thank you. It’s absolutely possible that he told anyone who knew what he’d done the same twaddle he was telling himself, his AP and anyone who just might decide that he wasn’t the great stand up guy with a shedload of integrity they all thought he was. That’s where confirmation bias and self justification becomes dangerous. It’s hard to believe bad things about those we love, it sets up cognitive dissonance which is hard to sit with. We can’t hold two opposing views about the same thing at once. “He’s my son and he’s wonderful and perfect and I love my wonderful perfect son” being his mum’s deeply held belief. On finding out he was cheating it’s far easier for her to think “my wonderful son can’t have done this without provocation, without a good reason. If I accept he’s capable of this then I have to accept maybe I was wrong, my wonderful perfect son maybe isn’t always wonderful and certainly not perfect”. She has absolute proof that he’s neither wonderful all the time nor perfect, but this jars against her deeply held belief about him, therefore it’s far, far easier to blame someone else. Enter the baloney he fed her and the ‘real’ problem: you! Now she has a reason, now she has the confirmation bias she was seeking, “Phew, it’s all his wife’s fault. She drove him to it. He’s still wonderful and perfect and only did this terrible thing because she neglected him and failed to notice his wonderfulness and perfection.” Hey presto, his halo is reinstated, he becomes a victim, not a perpetrator and actually you are to blame. Cognitive dissonance resolved. Your husband was scurrying around doing damage limitation with anyone who might find on discovering his antics that they wanted to revise their good opinion of him. Yours got sacrificed on the altar of his need to save face.
I had to massively, brutally look at my reasons for reconciling with my husband to check I wasn’t just refusing to believe he was a liar, untrustworthy, had betrayed me. My deep seated belief was that he would never, ever do anything like that, we’d been together nearly 35 years. So when he did, my belief system about him got blown out of the water. Shattered. However I had far more proof of his fantastic behaviour towards me over three decades than this bloody awful shitty treatment of me. He wanted me, he was given ground rules, had to earn back trust and good opinion, had to back up everything said with actions, anything I needed from him was a non-negotiable and he had to agree to that or it was over. There’s no doubt now that four years later he wants me and was prepared to make radical changes in his life and look at himself and what drove him and influenced him. I, along with the children and our marriage, are front and centre to him as they used to be and he (and I) know my worth. His loss if he’s an idiot again and loses me. I’m satisfied that my reasons for staying (non-negotiable boundaries in place) are valid and not denial or wishful thinking or sunk costs fallacy, for the children/ financial etc. I’m satisfied that his reasons for staying are valid too. The way he has been since is proof of that.

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