Brothers comment - normal or inappropriate? TW sexual abuse

[Newusernameaug]

Please help me get my head straight on this wise MN.

Rarely see or speak to dbro and been no contact for approx 4 months since I called him out about an inappropriate comment on a family what’s app group.

Visiting my mums this weekend, where he is living with his dw and 2 daughters.

We had one conversation over dinner last night and that’s it.

Tonight dsil, dm and me laughing in kitchen, talking about cookies, basically us 3 women bonding (I’ve not been to my dm’s since he moved back in there a year ago).
Db walks in, takes over conversation and steers it to ‘Do you remember dw, when we used to go and see Barberella, Booberalla at x place? She had the biggest boobs I’ve ever seen. Massive they were. Face of a dragon, breasts of a princess. I was gutted when she left.’
and walks out of the kitchen.

I look at dw and dm, no reaction or acknowledgement from either of them, but dw immediately leave kitchen and shuts herself in lounge with db.

Is it just me or is this sort of behaviour fucking weird?!
What would you say or do or think?
Nieces are 7 & 9 ish.

Backstory re abuse - my ddad is inappropriate and so are uncles. My Nan, mum, aunties, me have all suffered sexual abuse / abusive relationships.

Im not sure if I’m over reacting feeling so grossed out and icky and my dm is immune to this behaviour or if I’ve overreacting due to history.

I didn’t say anything or react and db and dsil have no idea how I feel but did speak to dm about how I felt.

This is confusing. You've all been sexually abused. Has your brother been sexually abused? Why is his wife tacitly accepting this if it is not accepted in the house?
It's basically gross. Your brother is gross. But it sounds like being gross is the norm.

Sorry If I’ve written it confusingly!

Reading it back, I can see how confusing and angry I am, I actually feel better for writing it (and less likely to blurt something out to his face!)

As far as I know, dbro has never been abused.

Well, I guess this is accepted in their relationship and my mum never stands up to my dbro or says anything.

I guess that’s what I’m asking - is this gross or is it ok and I’m overreacting for finding it gross?! Glad you think it’s gross too!

He's full of inappropriateness isn't he? Seems the men in your family have all learned bad behaviour off each other. Probably best to exclude from family situations, maybe the women of the family could meet in a safe place away from them.
I'm not surprised his dw took him into a room to have words with him after that. To start with it's a bit odd if she visited a place like that with him and she probably would not have wanted that known about, but also, he could equally be lying and spouted BS just as something to say that was designed to upset and intimidate. In which case, he's actually intimidated by women to the extent that he tries to belittle them in the only way he knows how, by being vulgar. Says how weak and pathetic of mind he is. You'd all do well to exclude him from your lives. Would not want to be in your DSis shoes - I'd you like her, prepare for her needing your support once she gets the will to leave the grim sleazebag.

It is gross, very gross.
And inappropriate.
YANBU

I find it gross too, to talk about a woman's breasts to his wife, sister and mother. Was he trying to shock you all? He sounds a bit pathetic to be honest.

Yes it's gross. I would arrange to see your DM when DB is not there.

Phew, thank you for answering and for making me feel like I’m not the one going mad here as it’s hard when my dm and his dw don’t react or see that there’s a problem with this type of behaviour.

I feel that dsil does see it’s wrong, and could sense it so that’s why removed herself and shut the door on them, but I doubt very much she would say anything or even be that aware of it iyswim?

Yes sadly, I think my dm and auntie were so used to this sort of thing both of them had long abusive marriages they weren’t even aware were abusive until recently.

I try to see my dm away from the house, and my dbro, that’s why I’ve not been here for so long, but I was getting fed up with not being able to see and spend time with my dm because of him! 🙄

As an isolated incident, to me it sounds like a joke. Bit cringy, like if my dad made a comment about Kelly Brooke but otherwise harmless.

Given the history though, I can see why you find it gross. You'd expect him to make extra effort to not make comments like that when you're there trying to rebuilt a relationship but I guess he has no filter.

@Beachloveramy

Sounds like a joke??? aren't jokes supposed to be funny?

It would be gross, history or not. It would never ,ever cross my mind to make comments about anyone's breasts if I was in company. FFS!

@Newusernameaug

Your 'd'b is a sick, abusing twat. I pity your SIL, she probably has to put up with his shit 24/7. Probably been ground down to accept it like your relatives did. Sorry you're related to this piece of shit.

There's also a disgustingly controlling misogynistic element of coming in and deliberately breaking up the unit that was forming between the three of you. He felt threatened and decided to use this horrible comment to make you all feel uncomfortable and stop having fun without him.

Yuk

my ddad is inappropriate and so are uncles

Your b is clearly cut from the same cloth or following their example, or both.

This demonstrates the foolishness of reproducing with men like this, unless they somehow only started being inappropriate after their kids came along (unlikely).

Their behaviour does seem motivated by some desire to have an impact and to dominate. A bit of wannabe alpha male dominance.

I suppose it's also just them indulging their sleaziness.

Your sil obviously had a word with him but it's clearly not having much impact, not is your ostracizing him .... If this was the first time give spent time in his company after a 4 month absence due to a previous inappropriate comment/s. His decision - if remotely aware of why you avoided contact with him for months following the last inappropriate comment/behaviour... Had been to purposefully, boldly, intentionally strike into a neutral situation & conversation and impose inappropriate, sleazy, sexist, deeply uncomfortable (for his female relatives) talk.

It seems very much like a power & dominance play.

("If you think I'm going to change or shut up or be cowed or told what to do or watch my words around women.... by women ... I'm going to show you how wring you are, who is in charge here, how I say what I want, how I want, when I want".

The subject matter also seems chosen to make women uncomfortable and (in his head perhaps (?)) feel inadequate.

*stride

Frankly weird to make that comment in front of his mum and you.

Ateotd he's purposefully made;

• Your Mum uncomfortable - with shit no man should be taking about in front of his Mum

• You uncomfortable, again with shit most sister brother relationships would not bear comfortably taking about

• His wife uncomfortable, on two fronts. 1. Taking about something inappropriate in front of his Mum and sister ... Also specifically referring to her being a party to watching some strip/sex act show (?) Which is highly unlikely to be something she'd want publicly discussed (if true), particularly Infront of her in laws.

The context is also notable - he's done this in a domestic, sober, daytime, family context .... Not even (still not ok but more understandable perhaps) a drunken, night time, social situation.

And this incident is in the wake of a four month absence (?) due to previous inappropriate behaviour.

As I said you can clearly see his response to that four month absence - that protest and, in his mind, challenge to him & attempt to curb his behaviour (I imagine his wife may have spoken to him about it too)..... (It has been a very vocal, very purposeful, very defiant "fuck you all, I'll do it again, you'll know your place".

No question he's being deeply disrespectful of all of you, and trying to stop you bonding.

What a piece of shit.

my ddad is inappropriate and so are uncles. My Nan, mum, aunties, me have all suffered sexual abuse / abusive relationships.

By whom.

Are these inappropriate men doing the abusing?

Because such inappropriateness often tends to be part of the personality of sex offender, sex abuser types.

he's actually intimidated by women to the extent that he tries to belittle them in the only way he knows how, by being vulgar. Says how weak and pathetic of mind he is.

Yep.

These guys seem to be on some kind of power & dominance play by purposefully taking about sexual stuff and women's intimate body parts - in front of their partners and female relatives, to make them feel uncomfortable. They objectify wine in front of them to make them uncomfortable and presumably (in their minds) out then in their place.

Honestly, at this age Id have trouble refraining from saying in response to this type of shit "yeah but I bet she wasn't as good as the male stripper I saw who wrapped his dick around my arm, it was so long lol". And if he said a word back, I'd say "are we not talking about stripper's body parts?? I didbt think you were a prude, not with the stuff you come out with!!"

They get away with this shit with no come back.

All in all though, they all need ejected from their families. They are not fit to be in them.

I dread to think what he says in front of his daughters and how it's affecting their mentality.

Visiting my mums this weekend, where he is living with his dw and 2 daughters.

Why on earth are he & his family living with your mother?

Is this a temporary arrangement?

What is he contributing while living in your Mum's house?

He clearly doesn't mind living off women .... In addition to objectifying then and being utterly inappropriate in front of them.

dsil, dm and me laughing in kitchen

He really didn't like you women chatting and laughing and having a nice time and bonding, did he...... Just had to go in and break it up and make sure he left all of you intensely uncomfortable (and your sil probably very embarrassed).

He (and your male relatives) sound like real women haters under the surface. Very determined to dominate.

You are starting to stand up for yourself, but no wonder with your Mum's example, that you may not have before.

Your Mum, hosting this specimen in her home, where presumably he's not paying the equivalent of the going rate for a mortgage or rent, said nothing apparently. And has pout up with this from you dad. Many another woman would have said - "none of that talk under my roof!".

Notable that he walked out after saying it so you, who are starting to stand up to him by calling him out the last time, had no chance to respond properly.

Agree with most of the previous posters. Deliberately inappropriate power play behaviour aimed at testing boundaries which of you had put up would have been dismantled. Sounds like it is normalised in your family. Strict boundaries and avoiding your brother if possible are probably your best approach.

I grew up in similar except it was sexual abuse that was tolerated in the family from a brother to sisters. My friend worked in a prison for years and she put this really well if only people realised that it is their dysfunctional family members who are the main danger to them and not strangers, people would be far better off. I know from experience she has a point.

As an isolated incident, to me it sounds like a joke.

Man walks into a kitchen where three women are discussing cookies and laughing about something.

He changes the conversation and then stared talking about a stripper with gigantic breasts, how much he misses seeing her, how his wife and he used to go and see her ... Then walks out

In what universe is that a joke??

Wtaf are on about?

My late father and ex bil used to do similar but not sexual.

More just "jokey" derogatory stuff about women.

My other bils did not really do it.

It seemed to be the only or main way my late Dad and bil could bond ... By "jokily" being a bit derogatory about women in general and towards specific females in our home. It felt like they had to constantly demonstrate that they were not "under the thumb" and that could amuse themselves with women if they wanted. It caused rows every time my bil visited. But didn't change. Even the ear bashing and bad blood they got as a result of their behaviour was clearly lesser to the satisfaction they got out of the behaviour at the time .Pathetic.

In any case my sister left my bil eventually for financial & emotional abuse etc.

Thanks for the responses, it’s going to help me articulate to my dm why his behaviour is so wrong as I struggle to do this as it of course triggers me back to being a child.
The thoughtful well articulated responses have really helped me process it, so thanks.

Well i suppose unless there's an outside chance that biscuits remind him of tits, his timing and subject matter do seem a bit weird.