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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Abuse or can 2 people just bring out the worse in each other?

40 replies

Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 09:30

Ive been thinking about my abusive marriage of 10 years.
It doesn’t excuse someone’s behaviour but can 2 people just not be compatible and bring out the worse in each other?

I’m a bit of an introvert and he was an extrovert. He liked to be out and socialise and get drunk and smoke weed, I was the opposite. He was very passionate and I was not, his passion and anger scared the crap out of me. I never argued back as I was stunned. When I was with him I was like a rabbit in the headlights. He was and still is extremely emotional, way too emotional in my eyes but then that’s my opinion.

I couldn’t be what he wanted and he couldn’t be what I wanted. I withdrew and he got aggressive. His aggression hurt me and my withdrawal hurt him. He at times was really nasty, he liked to see me hurt because he said I was hurting him. It was awful and became really tit for tat. I didn’t realise I was withdrawing but he knew he was aggressive.

I blame myself in a way because I should have left him the first time he was aggressive towards me but I felt responsible for his actions because I wasn’t as passionate and outgoing as him.

We were a bad match and he punished me for it as he wanted me to be something I wasn’t and I didn’t understand I was fine as I was and we were not good together.

Ive been in a relationship now for over 2 years and he is so lovely, he is right for me. I’ve never been scared of him like my ex. My anxiety I suffered so badly with those years I was with my ex has vanished. My depression has gone.

It makes me think was he really abusive or did we just bring out the worse in each other? Did he find my withdrawal and anxiety abusive to him? He always used to say that I was too sensitive and he was passionate and couldn’t help it.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 18/01/2023 13:07

Healthy and unhealthy are the best terms for relationships. Trying to break down the specifics into abuse/control/bringing out the worst is almost impossible. Situations are not clear cut and definable. Something might be 30% caused by the worst in you, 30% by the worst in him, 38% controlling, and a smattering of 2% abuse.

If someone calls you an abusive name, that takes about a second, but it can affect you for years. Are you suffering from years of abuse? It's impossible to say.

Stop pulling apart the past. You were in an unhealthy relationship. You are out of it. Look forwards, unless, when you look back in 10 years, you want to see an unhealthy relationship taking up room in your life when you could have been doing something healthy.

Garcialikeskittens · 18/01/2023 13:44

I’m pleased you are no longer in that relationship and have now found yourself with someone who makes you happy.

i think there can be relationships that are equally toxic/unhealthy however what you’ve described above in terms of him being ‘aggressive’ and he ‘couldn’t Help it’ sounds abusive to me.

Original poster
Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 14:16

We share a daughter together. We were at court for years and he was not allowed contact for those years.

He has been in another relationship for a couple of years and has had a baby with her. He doesn’t treat her like he did me. They must be better suited or she must not press his buttons like I did.

OP posts:
Reugny · 18/01/2023 14:21

They are probably better suited.

Due to some of my family and friends jobs they come across all sorts of couples.

They describe couples who clearly shouldn't be in a relationship with one another including those who shouldn't be in any contact with one another. In some cases the law has to get involved to keep the latter apart.

sillybillyboo1 · 18/01/2023 14:24

Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 09:30

Ive been thinking about my abusive marriage of 10 years.
It doesn’t excuse someone’s behaviour but can 2 people just not be compatible and bring out the worse in each other?

I’m a bit of an introvert and he was an extrovert. He liked to be out and socialise and get drunk and smoke weed, I was the opposite. He was very passionate and I was not, his passion and anger scared the crap out of me. I never argued back as I was stunned. When I was with him I was like a rabbit in the headlights. He was and still is extremely emotional, way too emotional in my eyes but then that’s my opinion.

I couldn’t be what he wanted and he couldn’t be what I wanted. I withdrew and he got aggressive. His aggression hurt me and my withdrawal hurt him. He at times was really nasty, he liked to see me hurt because he said I was hurting him. It was awful and became really tit for tat. I didn’t realise I was withdrawing but he knew he was aggressive.

I blame myself in a way because I should have left him the first time he was aggressive towards me but I felt responsible for his actions because I wasn’t as passionate and outgoing as him.

We were a bad match and he punished me for it as he wanted me to be something I wasn’t and I didn’t understand I was fine as I was and we were not good together.

Ive been in a relationship now for over 2 years and he is so lovely, he is right for me. I’ve never been scared of him like my ex. My anxiety I suffered so badly with those years I was with my ex has vanished. My depression has gone.

It makes me think was he really abusive or did we just bring out the worse in each other? Did he find my withdrawal and anxiety abusive to him? He always used to say that I was too sensitive and he was passionate and couldn’t help it.

He sounds very abusive
And, the abused often feel lile it was somehow their fault/equal doing. Maybe he is abusive to his partner, maybe not. And abusers don't always repeat, they can pick on who they treat better or worse. He sounds really awful

sillybillyboo1 · 18/01/2023 14:35

Ánd i will say my dad is abusive
He was abusive to previous partners more...current partner is a bit dim/younger so perhaps gets away with it more. However, he still is not pleasant cant say i lkee the man the only reason i say he gets on more with women who are permissive of that type of behaviour. Like doormats, basically. with my dad though it was the women who dared to say wait hold on a minute thats not right were the ones he didnt like/turned on

NewNameNigel · 18/01/2023 14:53

I think that some people will attempt be abusive in all their relationships. Some of their partners / victims will leave at the first sign of abusive, some will suck it up for a short time and some will stay for years.

There are also people who are deeply incompatible and bring out each others bad traits and behave badly towards each other. However in most cases at least one person in the relationship recognizes this early and leaves. I can see how if this doesn't happen an abusive dynamic could form even though the person isn't generally abusive.

OP I think it would do you good to talk through your feelings about your ex with a therapist or counselor. Is this something you have considered?

sillybillyboo1 · 18/01/2023 15:03

I am talking of my own experience but it can be applied generally as well. So, with my dad he was awful to some partners and less so with others though he always is critical and difficult with them all (and own kids) it was how the partner reacted was what was the difference though the toxicity always started with my dad i.e hes the common denominator, the one with the issues.

Garcialikeskittens · 18/01/2023 15:04

You don’t know that he isn’t abusive towards her though sweetie.

I agree with the previous poster who suggested talking this out, you are putting an awful lot of blame on your shoulders for how he treated you x

Original poster
Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 15:18

I don’t blame myself really but the incompatibility of us.

she obviously believed his side of events, even though denied access at court for a number of years to his daughter she is with him and has been for a couple of years now and had a baby during proceedings. She seems nice also.

OP posts:
Eyerollcentral · 18/01/2023 15:24

Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 15:18

I don’t blame myself really but the incompatibility of us.

she obviously believed his side of events, even though denied access at court for a number of years to his daughter she is with him and has been for a couple of years now and had a baby during proceedings. She seems nice also.

Sounds like it was so abusive you’ve gone round all the houses to avoid the conclusion he was abusive because you’ve listened to him undermining you for years. That can mean you don’t trust your own judgment any more. As others have said you have no way of knowing if he is abusive to her. You also seem nice, that’s not a protection against being abused. You’ve done really well to move on to a healthy relationship. Sometimes when you are in a healthier place your mind is more ready to reflect on the bad times as you are in a place of safety now. I’d be concerned that you seem to still have internalised a lot of his behaviour here. Talking to someone may help.

AnnieFarmer · 18/01/2023 15:33

Liking to see you hurt because you hurt him isn’t mature and well adjusted adult behaviour.

But I do think that you can have a lot in common with someone but ultimately still be incompatible. Personalities and temperaments can clash. And there’s nothing like a long term relationship or marriage to see every aspect of someone’s personality up close and raw. The result can be abuse in the relationship. Two generally nice and well liked people can just bring the worst out in one other.

Some people don’t meet the one who fits them like their favourite old comfortable cardigan until later on in life. I’m glad you’ve found someone you feel settled with and the anxiety is gone.

Original poster
Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 16:10

I just remember most of his excuses were because he didn’t feel loved enough by me. He was right though as most of the time I really disliked him, he was angry, smoked, became aggressive and loud when drunk, fought with strangers etc. Was a waste of 10 years and I’m annoyed I never left. But then without this path I would not have met my new partner and have this little 8 week old baby who I love so much.

He would bang on that he would never meet another and be alone for ever if I left, obviously not true as he was on the dated websites right after I left. I don’t understand how he could be so awful to me and all his previous relationships were extremely toxic also, worse the further back you go but now look like he has the perfect relationship, it’s odd. Can he really have changed?

OP posts:
Eyerollcentral · 18/01/2023 16:14

Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 16:10

I just remember most of his excuses were because he didn’t feel loved enough by me. He was right though as most of the time I really disliked him, he was angry, smoked, became aggressive and loud when drunk, fought with strangers etc. Was a waste of 10 years and I’m annoyed I never left. But then without this path I would not have met my new partner and have this little 8 week old baby who I love so much.

He would bang on that he would never meet another and be alone for ever if I left, obviously not true as he was on the dated websites right after I left. I don’t understand how he could be so awful to me and all his previous relationships were extremely toxic also, worse the further back you go but now look like he has the perfect relationship, it’s odd. Can he really have changed?

Saying it’s all your fault because you don’t love me enough is text book abuser. It’s up there with you made me do it. Then guilting you in to staying, that’s also abusive. It’s manipulation everywhere you look and it puts you on edge because it’s crazy making. That’s the point.
Of course he hasn’t changed. He has just gotten better at picking more compliant victims

Watchkeys · 18/01/2023 16:16

I just remember most of his excuses were because he didn’t feel loved enough by me

But that doesn't excuse anything at all. The adult thing to do if you don't feel there's enough love in your relationship is to talk to our partner about it, and if that doesn't help, you leave. You weren't responsible for loving him enough to stop him turning nasty. That's all on him, regardless of how much/little you loved him.

MorrisZapp · 18/01/2023 16:17

You must know logically that being introverted does not mean that you deserved abuse, and that withdrawing after abuse is what any rational person would do.

Perhaps he's matured, a bit. Perhaps his new partner draws harder boundaries. Perhaps she tolerates more, you'll never know. It only matters that you left an abusive relationship and protected your child. I've got loads of exes, they're probably pretty decent these days despite being a bit of a nob back then. Doesn't mean I wasn't right to move on when I did.

Original poster
Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 16:18

During his relationship with this new lady he was sent on anger management course and a DAPP programme and found guilty of abusive behaviours, yet she stayed and had a baby with him…I don’t understand this? How did he get away with that?

OP posts:
Eyerollcentral · 18/01/2023 16:21

Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 16:18

During his relationship with this new lady he was sent on anger management course and a DAPP programme and found guilty of abusive behaviours, yet she stayed and had a baby with him…I don’t understand this? How did he get away with that?

Why did you stay with him for ten years? Who knows? Who cares? You should feel sorry for her because you know what he is like. She must be willing to put up with it. He hasn’t changed but if he has done these courses it has been because he was ordered to - what had he done to be ordered to do so?

Watchkeys · 18/01/2023 16:26

Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 16:18

During his relationship with this new lady he was sent on anger management course and a DAPP programme and found guilty of abusive behaviours, yet she stayed and had a baby with him…I don’t understand this? How did he get away with that?

You're asking about her. A stranger to you. You are trying to psychoanalyse someone you don't know. It might be hell behind closed doors. It doesn't matter. He wasn't good for or to you. Leave him and his life and his behaviours to him. Leave the past where it is.

It's done. He is not part of your life.

MorrisZapp · 18/01/2023 16:28

Well, you also stayed with him despite knowing what he's like. And he probably showed you who he was before you had a baby too. But park that, because you've moved on and don't need to give him any head space now. You're in a far better situation, and you've matured too.

Original poster
Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 16:46

I guess it’s because we share our daughter and he is going to be spending more and more time with her, otherwise I’d never have to see him ever again.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 18/01/2023 17:00

Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 16:46

I guess it’s because we share our daughter and he is going to be spending more and more time with her, otherwise I’d never have to see him ever again.

That doesn't mean you need to psychoanalyse him. It means you have to be there for your daughter, and aware that he is capable of having unhealthy relationships.

Original poster
Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 17:34

@Eyerollcentral he admitted to my accusations of incidents in court but blamed me or his dad or his dog etc for his actions so the judge wasn’t happy that he won’t repeat them and that he lacked insight to the consequences of his behaviour. The judge was worried not that he abused our daughter but that she would be a witness to his behaviour in his relationships in the future.

OP posts:
Original poster
Cookiemonster83 · 18/01/2023 17:38

yes @Watchkeys I know nothing about her, her past or any reasons why she might put up with any negative behaviour if there is any. My daughter comes home telling me how lovely she is and what a wonderful time she has with her and her dad. Obviously this is the best outcome but it got me thinking why did I go through something terrible with him.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 18/01/2023 17:42

Unless you're looking to blame someone, what does it matter? What use will it do, even if you come up with a definitive answer? How will it help you, and why do you need that help?

You'd be better off working out why you need to know the answer than you would working out the answer.