How to bring up "you're boring"?

[kingfisher13]

I'm in my mid 40s, married with one primary age child, and life is ok. We have stable jobs, a decent house, and nothing much to worry about except my husband has some health issues around undiagnosed chronic pain/headaches. These have developed over the past few years, basically since child has started school, and now he's at the point where he barely goes out (works from home) and often goes to lie down especially after any activity. We sleep separately because his disturbed sleep keeps me awake.

Given these health issues I feel terrible about this - but he is so, so boring. I honestly wonder what we used to talk about and do. He never indicates that he misses the things we used to do together pre-child, like weekends away, eating out, camping holidays or going for walks/bike rides, and the more I think about it I realise it was always me initiating them. He's never done things with friends so nothing for him to miss on that side - he's happy with his own company. There's never a "I wish I could .." or "when I feel a bit better I'd like to..." - I tried to ask him about that and what he said he missed, when pressed, was being able to wash the car. Honestly.

So the signs were always there, and for whatever reason I didn't see them or ignored them. I think I've grown and changed a lot in the past few years, both personally growing in confidence and also making some really solid female friends and seeing what their relationships and family lives are like. If I had seen that back then I would not have married him (it was even me who proposed). But I did, and here we are.

He's a decent guy, he's never got outwardly angry about being ill and he doesn't mind me making plans to do things on my own/with friends. He tries to do his share around the house although it can wipe him out and I end up picking up a lot of it anyway.

Where do I go from here? It's all so tainted by the fact he's unwell and simply can't do what he used to, but it's also that that's highlighted what is important to him in life, which is apparently not the same as what is important to me. But every potential conversation about it feels massively selfish and like kicking a man when he's down. He's not likely to change on a deep personal level so is it either put up or split up?

I really feel for you and I don’t think you’re being harsh at all.

I think the point here is that even if his health improved, realistically I can’t see it getting any better from what you say of his boring/not taking the initiative character type.

If you feel trapped and suffocated by him now, imagine your frustration and resentment in 5 year’s time.

When all’s said and done, It’s not a question of his health, it’s a question of HIM.

It’s like death by a thousand swords, and to be blunt, I think you should leave if it’s practically and financially viable.

What is the cause of the headaches? Surely by now he must have a diagnosis?

Thanks for the replies. Some painful home truths but that's why I posted. Also thanks to those with insight from the other side.

I want to clarify that it's not undiagnosed through lack of trying. He's been to the GP many times and they've done all kinds of scans, blood tests, prescribed medication, referred to physio, but there's still no diagnosis and nothing has really helped. I can see how this is frustrating and exhausting, and I've offered to support by coming to appointments or helping him come up with questions beforehand but he's very much "if you want to" about it and doesn't seem to care either way. I'm sure mental health is a big part of it although when I've brought it up he's not convinced.

I've tried to get him to talk about it but all I get "it's difficult". I try my hardest to sympathise, I really know it must be rotten to be in pain but he doesn't really help me understand as he never talks about how he feels or explains how the pain varies.

I can see the car washing comment as a desire for normal life but I think at the time I was hoping for some acknowledgment that this situation affects and limits the whole family. If it was me, yes I might miss the satisfaction of giving the kitchen a deep clean, but I'd miss family beach trips and going to the park more. Maybe a bit more "remember when..." is needed on my part.

I am the one who has these crap health issue, diagnosed but there is nothing medicine can propose (and I often end up gaslighted by HCP anyway).

There are many ways to deal with that type of chronic issues.
Spending my time saying or thinking ‘oh I wish I could do X and Y’ makes me depressed tbh.
Talking about how I wish I could joint DH and the dcs is breaking my heart. Of course I’d love to but I can’t! What’s the point of mentioning it and then make everyone feel crap about them having a good time because I can’t join in?
And there is the fact o often worry that I am getting boring if I talk too much about I feel (which is crap all the time. Just different levels of crap).

There is also NO WAY DH will ever get how poorly I am. From the outside, nothing changes between the ‘im feeling less real today and on my own scale, quite good’ and ‘I’m feeling dreadful today and really struggle to function at all’. It’s not possible to explain the effect of the pain and fatigue to someone who hasn’t experienced it themselves.

As for the acknowledgement of the impact on family and basically YOU, it depends on how you are asking the question.
Dont expect him to tell you he knows how crap things are for you if you ask him what he misses….

Btw I’d point your DH towards ME/CFS as a possible diagnostic.
It usually takes YEARS to get there due to the fact GPs know nothing about it (they’ve just introduced it into the medical curriculum….) and the fact it was deemed to be ‘psychological’.

Is your DH getting counselling support for what he is dealing with?
That might be helpful both for him and for the relationship.

Does he get any relief from painkillers, perhaps occasional use of co-codamol so he can do the odd ‘fun’ thing?

I think the problem is that he doesn’t want to, so either his pain is causing depression, or vice versa. Perhaps that is the thing to focus on getting sorted out.

Maybe a bit more "remember when..." is needed on my part.

I understand that you want him to acknowledge that this situation is shit for you all - but at the same time, he can't do anything about it. You're right that it's no good pretending that everything is OK, and better to talk about horrible things. But "remember when" will probably make him feel more frustrated and upset that he can't be an active, engaged dad at the moment. You'll need to acknowledge that, too, and make it clear that you're not complaining about his behaviour - tell him you're just having a rant and don't want to pressure him into overstretching himself.

he's very much "if you want to" about it and doesn't seem to care either way. I'm sure mental health is a big part of it although when I've brought it up he's not convinced.
Could it be that he's not enthusiastic about you coming with him or suggesting questions because you see it as a mental health issue? If he doesn't think it is one then your input might seem contraproductive.

So when you asked him what he missed, what you really wanted was for him to tell you how he knew he is ruining your life? Maybe he doesn’t want to talk about what the pain feels like or how bad it is. He probably doesn’t want to dwell on it himself, or bore you about it! I really feel for him.

I've been the one with chronic health problems who became boring, or felt I did. I think lockdowns didn't help, although my health problems didn't start until the back end of those, the "stay at home for your health" message really stuck. Then when my illness really started (and was undiagnosed for over a year) I found I became scared to go out (bowel problems), home seemed safer somehow. My life seemed to shrink to hospital appointments and occasional supermarket trips.
I ended up deciding to timetable things to do, like day trips out, and telling my husband that unless I was very ill, not to let me cancel. I tried to schedule one thing a week, and meeting a friend once a week. I needed help though, to make it happen, and trips out need a lot of preparation, but I've realised that's what I have to do.
You can feel very vulnerable when ill, and get stuck in your "safe space" - maybe your husband needs a bit of a push from you to expand his horizons?

I agree with a PP that it sounds like ME/CFS and possibly Fibro on top.

I'm astonished that he's still managing working full time - op you don't realise that his tank is probably utterly empty because he's trying to maintain his income for the family.

Do you work FT already? You may need to rethink your whole family set up as regards who does what. Can you up your hours or get yourself into better paid work to allow him to reduce his hours? That might help him somewhat.

I'd also prioritise getting him to a private specialist who can get him on a solid regime of medication and recovery-focused gentle activity, and who can explain to you exactly how to support, and suggest reasonable accommodations to his employers.

I'm hoping that you are using MN to vent and are a bit more empathetic to your very poorly husband in real life.

Yes, this is a bit of a vent because I don't have another outlet. Life has changed for the worse and I'm trying to get my head around it probably not getting better. Having organised Christmas, visiting family etc. I'm shattered at the moment and I think the overwhelm and frustration is coming out here as meanness. I wonder if I am in the anger stage of grief.

I do work very nearly full time. I would support him going part time and in fact we'd get by ok on my pay if he stopped completely but he says he wouldn't know what to do with himself. His work is computer based, hence ok from home, and they've been great about him taking time off as needed. I actually think it's good for him mentally to have some purpose and interact with other people but there's definitely no pressure from me to work.

In reply to another poster, I do try to go out and do things for myself - I see friends, keep active, and do things with DC. I'm really wary of planning big things though as if he's unwell on the day I will cancel rather than leave him to solo parent. We don't have backup childcare as his mum's miles away and mine died a couple of years ago.

I am genuinely grateful for all the responses and am trying really hard to get out of my own head and see things differently. I just wish I could get more of an insight from him directly.

I do work very nearly full time. I would support him going part time and in fact we'd get by ok on my pay if he stopped completely but he says he wouldn't know what to do with himself. His work is compuuter based, hence ok from home, and they've been great about him taking time off as needed. I actually think it's good for him mentally to have some purpose and interact with other people but there's definitely no pressure from me to work.

Do you think if he saw a specialist, and got a proper diagnosis and treatment plan, he might be more open to reducing his hours (perhaps temporarily) to try to protect his energy levels somewhat and leave him more able to do things that are enjoyable (even if washing his car!!)? Sort of like giving himself "official permission" to look after his health?

CFS and Fibro, as a PP pointed out, are still very much misunderstood and misdiagnosed by professionals and that can lead to a kind of "I have to carry on, the doctor says there's nothing wrong with me, I must just be a lazy shit person" mindset which is bloody horrible for the person who's ill.

You could also point out that it would surely be better for him to reduce his hours by 25% now and slowly rebuild his strength, than carry on struggling with this, unable to participate in family life, until he has a complete breakdown and ends up totally unable to work or do anything else.

My family member did exactly that - she was fobbed off by GPs over a 3 year period before finally getting a private diagnosis and the consultant was amazed she was still working at all with the severity of her symptoms. She transitioned to a part time arrangement and took those non-working hours to focus on activities to slowly improve her health and energy (meditation, yoga, or just extra sleep!) She was then able to build her hours back up once things improved a bit.

reading up on "Spoon Theory" might be really useful for you both.
www.thebraincharity.org.uk/whats-spoon-theory/

I suspect he is exactly who he always was and, like many women if we are honest, you were ready to accept that because you wanted a child and a family home. Now those needs have been met you are finding him dull, but he is unlikely to become more lively/extrovert/interesting than he is now (unless possibly his headaches and tiredness are caused by depression, which could be treated).

So your choice probably is between staying with him in the knowledge that he will not change, or ending the relationship (with all the problems that would bring).

May I point out that, from what you have said so far, if he goes part time, it won’t be a lifestyle choice that you would support.
It will be him being so unwell he can’t cope with working full time. It will be him being ILL AND DISABLED.

Look at him now. Still working full time but so exhausted he just collapse in bed as soon as he can
Headaches with ME often don’t respond to painkillers either.

He is not the type who would go part time in a wim because it’s the easy choice.

It took me 7 years to get a diagnosis of fibromyalgia. Such a long process of ruling every other thing out. It started after I lost my husband and I remember thinking I wish I could just do normal stuff like put the bins out. His pain must just be making him numb inside.
Only you can decide what to do. Mine is personally all about management of the Fibro and resting when I need to
Could you start off small with a trip to the cinema or a lunch date maybe? With a planned nap after?

Not sure if this is any help but here is the link to the symptoms if ME.
Maybe show it to your DH and sees if he can relate.

ME symptoms

Two perspectives. I suffered from chronic headache pain (migraines) for 30 years until I was prescribed beta blockers which have changed my life. I recall bitterly how the cindition impacted every area of my life and could make me feel so low I was suicidal at times. However......and I had this chat with my student recently who is also a migraine sufferer that nothing works for.....we both said if we declined every activity/outing/social event because we were unwell we would be total recluses! And that it was a difficult balance but sometimes you have to push through, especially as a parent.

Meanwhile......I left dp in '21 partly because he is so often ill and this made him very dull. He has recurrent snot related illnesses and essentially wanted to live his life from the armchair in my front room and never do anything. If we did anything I organised it and I realised it would never change. It got to the point of tell don't ask if we were just walking eve dog and he struggled with that. I became so resentful and fed up.

@pastypirate i get wha5 you say about pushing through it.
However,if what the DH has is ME/CFS then the advice is to NEVER do that and push because it will make the person worse.

In this case, a diagnosis could make all the difference.

Sounds like he is either clinically depressed or has ME or fibro. He needs a proper diagnosis and treatment, poor man. That being said, you also have needs and a right to happiness. Hope you find a solution soon.

I think it's important to differentiate between him being boring, and you being bored with him. It's not his job to entertain you. If you don't like him as he is, that's your responsibility to sort out. It's not on him to change to meet your requirements.

Has he had his eye sight checked?

I went through a stage of having horrid headaches on a daily basis. They’d come on during the afternoon most days. I ended up seeing my GP who after some initial checks recommended I go to the opticians for an eye test.

Turned out that I needed glasses for reading and screen work. Glasses arrived, headaches went.

Has your husband got private medical insurance through work? If so you could push for a referral to a consultant?

Other thoughts acupuncture and or osteopathy?

Surely the root cause here are these headaches. It must be utterly miserable for both of you.