Complex- to separate or not

[Moonkuu]

Hey. This is my first post here and I am writing because basically I have nowhere else to turn. So my story is that I'm from another European country, living in the UK. I'm from a really messed up, complicated family and grew up with mum with pretty severe mental health issues,a dad who was more interested in his own life than keeping his kids safe and an extended family with a mixed bag of issues from severe mental health problems to substance misuse and miserable marriages all around.

When I moved to the UK, I had only recebtly converted to Christianity. At home I attended quite a middle-of-the road sort of a church that didn't put too much emphasis on dictating how people ought to live. When I moved here, through a friend, I ended up in a very conservative congregation and quickly sapped up all their views, especially when it came to marriage and relationships. Like many other girls in that church, I was really longing to get married and start a family. I think the fact that my home life in my own country was still such a mess and I Did a lot of caring for my mum even from abroad (she was sectioned three times when I first moved away,always shortly after I returned from holidays). I was taken care of by a big group of youth/young adult pastors and leaders and they encouraged me to view church as my new family. All the preaching about leaving your own family behind,picking up your cross and loving and following Jesus over anything else really hit home to me,basically because I just needed an escape.

I got access to some counselling through church. With a background of sexual abuse in childhood as well, I had a period where I was really confused sexually too and not sure whether I liked men or women... I now look at my experiences with women as a lovely memory as opposed to this sinful and awful mistake. However, I am sure I am straight and I have quite a thing for the sort of guys who sort of unintentionally behave like the "alpha male". My husband is definately not this type.

So anyway, on my second year in this church, my then best friend had read a really conservative book about dating and we basically both managed to get ourselves brainwashed into thinking that it would be the godly and right thing to do to go for dates even with someone you did not fancy, if they were a godly guy and wanted to serve Jesus. you'd then see if the dating would slowly make you develop those feelings for the person. Long story cut short, I met someone who was interested in me and said yes to dating him even though I was not attracted to him. My "best friend" was pretty heavily involved in the whole process and a lot of the mentors and friends from the church also gave me/us advice along the way. I hardly spoke to my own family or the friends I had from home (I sort of pulled away from them when I became a Christian, being afraid of their influence.).

We married after having dated for 11months, most of it in different countries because he went Africa for some of it. We had never kissed,cuddled, touched, only held hands. I had seen him topless twice and I remember not wanting to see more. I went pretty far on the wedding night and honeymoon sexually because I felt it was my duty. I ended up having a severe panic attack and developing an awful IBS that lasted for nearly a year and made me bedbound and unable to work and study at times.

Fast forward 11 years. After baby number 3 and finally learning to state my own needs during the birth (with sexual abuse background this is very very difficult), I feel like I have suddenly snapped out of a bad dream. I have grown up to be a strong woman and I know what I want and I do not want in a way think i never did before. Nothing in me ever belonged to me- since birth I was used by my mum as a support and someone to lean on and sexual abuse by a family friend just messed up my relationship to my body completely. I have never known how to draw boundaries. I now realise that I cruelly used my husband as a life boat to get away from all the sh*t.

I am now at a point where I do not want to keep going to the conservative church we are part of. I have stopped having sex with my husband (it is very rare anyway, he doesn't really have a healthy sex drive and I really don't want him). We have three small kids age 7, 3.5 and 1.5. I am exhausted- still at home with them. There is no family support and we are part of a really stuck up, posh church where I feel extremely uncomfortable. I feel like I want to run away.

We have always argued a lot. It has been extra bad in the last few months. My husband and I have nothing in common, and I just feel awkward and uncomfortable around him. I have told him that I am not attracted to him and that I am doubtful we are going to pull through. He is obviously really heartbroken.

He has not made any concessions though. I'd like to attend a nice Anglican church with a female vicar round the corner, he refused to move away from a conservative male-led church, but also refuses me to go on my own without him and the children. He fluctuates between saying that if i want to leave, I will need to leave the family home, not him and on softer days he might say he would be willing to leave. Lately it has been more like if i leave with the kids, he will fight nail and tooth against it and fight for custody too. He is in an established job, no mental health record and in good standing within our conservative church. I have mental health history including PND and very limited support because I have started to distance myself from this conservative group. I am terrified that he would take the kids from me.

He is a great dad, does every thing for the kids and when he is off, will change nappies, clean etc. However, that and the fact he has a decent job are the only good things about our relationship. He has no drive or interest or ability for exercise, for maintaining and decorating a nice home or for saving up for nice holidays. His family or posh and weird and basically hate my guts. They are very tough upper lip whereas I am more warm and expressive, which they hate. We have talked about moving back to my country, where I have my siblings, my parents who are a lot more stable and sorted in their late years and my friends. I feel desperately lonely and miss all those people a lot.

I just don't know whether to leave him now in England where we have jobs ( I can go back any time) and some friends and our kids have school and nursery friends. His family live in Scotland and never visit. Or whether to do a big overseas move and see if we can make things work in my country.

My husband has said he will do every thing to not break a marriage. I think he sees it as really really sinful. Whereas I grew up with parents who were miserable and probably should have divorced earlier (they did when I was in my 20s). He is happy to stay married even if I never sleep with him again. But after having kids, I feel like so feminine and sexy and full of life and I just want to love and have sex with someone who knows how to experience passion. I know it is unrealistic to think anyone would want to be with me with the three kids, but i would have lots of time for myself if we had a 60-40 arrangement....

Just rambling now. Please respond if you have any wisdom or if you have experience of leaving a conservative church. I still believe in Jesus and that he alone can save us and paid for our sins, it's just that I think i am doubting some of the more conservative views around marriage and relationships now...

Sorry for countless typos etc. Too busy to have time to proof-read and writing on an old crappy phone.

There is a lot here to unpack and I hope writing it down is helping you to see clarity. A court will not hold your previous issues against you so please don't worry about this. Definitely find a church which you feel comfortable in and try to develop some supportive friendships, through school mums, church, or other groups. With the marriage and moving country, only you know what you really want to do. Good luck.

Thank you @MumCat2020 , writing this post has helped me so much actually to clarify my thinking. You are right, only I can make the ultimate decision and I need to just stick to my guts and find a more welcoming and loving church for myself, whether my husband likes it or not. I've just read someone's experience here on MN going to visit a church with her autistic son, and the pastor being absolutely awful and telling her not to come back. He sounds like our pastor/church. I really don't want to keep going there any more. But I also can't take the arguments every Sunday when I do refuse to go.

Definitely find yourself a better church - where you’re comfortable. Your husband shouldn’t be stopping you from changing churches. He doesn’t need to change. Maybe worth doing the move back to your country all together. Will your DH want to move to that country is his kids do? If he doesn’t want to then you need to think very carefully as kids deserve to have their dad in their life if he’s a loving father. I’ve had to stay where I’m based when I split so the kids could continue to see their dad. I don’t think it was fair on them to move them away from him, and then have to be travelling constantly.

Don’t waste your life unhappy. I’ve recently started dating someone again after a decade being single and he’s pretty amazing and I’ve realised it’s possible to be happy again. And having a man you fancy is so passionate and amazing. I never really fancied my ex and having sex with someone you don’t fancy is not great obviously. It’s so different with someone you fancy the pants off! Go and find that happiness, life is short

Thank you @Zanatdy , I could imagine it would be long time before I dated again too, but it is nice to know it is possible to find that kind of love again. I've only told one good friend about this situation and about what my husband is like as a person (she knows me really well). She just couldn't believe that I had ended up marrying in this way but also said it is up to me to figure out what is best for me and the kids in the future. He really is an amazing dad, very hands on, very gentle and nurturing. I would never want to jeopardise my children's relationship to him. But I already know and see that they can sense that I don't like being around him, most weekends I end up avoiding time as a family, unless it is an activity out of the home. Just being together around him makes my skin crawl. The kids see it and it is affecting them. My husband keeps saying that it is my choice whether to love him or not, and that separated parents are much worse for kids than parents who stay together because of principle.

I'm not a believer but in your situation it might help to make an appointment to speak to the female vicar at the church round the corner that you're interested in. If you don't love your husband then it's really over. So you have an option of returning to your country of origin and building a support network there? Or would it be better to separate now, get support from friends in new church and free both of you. Have you explained how you feel to husband. This is a new year, you can make changes, good luck OP. 💐

@VioletLemon that is such a good idea about meeting with the vicar, thank you. I'm really exhausted with keeping up appearances in our current church- it really is the kind of place where you have to be incredibly strong to survive, which is against everything Jesus taught. I have been open previously about my PND, and it was an extremely stigmatising experience.

I have told my husband how I feel. He is very much of the opinion that love is a choice and an action, nothing to do with how we feel. But it's easy for him to say as a bloke, I mean I have never even climaxed in our 11 years of marriage. He is heartbroken but just doesn't really feel anything very deeply. My friend suggested that I really clearly spell out to him some things he can do to improve things, and then give it 6 months to see if he acts on any of it. But he doesn't deserve being with someone who just really actually actively dislikes him, and the kids do not deserve to be around that.

On weekends and holidays I spend a lot of time away from the kids and then I end up resenting him for It. He doesn't have any interests or hobbies, isn't really into taking care of the car or cleaning a shed or anything. So when he is off, he does all the cooking and cleaning (badly) and I just hide away. I feel depressed and lonely and fed up, like a stranger in my house.

He also wants to move to my country but only if i promise to go to a conservative church he has chosen out there. One of my sisters suggested lying to him and promising to go to it buy then going my own way once we get there. But that is precisely what I do not want to do. I wish we could resolve this by talking, but he refuses to engage in any discussions if there is even a possibility of separating.

In my home country, childcare is cheap and properties also cheaper than where we live now. So even if we both had to start from scratch with our careers, we would probably have more time and energy for life. I would look to start some hobbies, meet old friends and go to a type of church I am comfortable with.

This all sounds very tough. No advice other than just to say I feel for you and courage! You are stronger than you think, after all you’ve been through, and able to articulate so clearly how you feel and see your own life so clearly shows how resourceful you are. Do what’s best for your happiness. You children will be fine no matter what, kids are resilient if they have a loving parent.

This sounds really similar to my story. I joined a conservative church at 18 where I met my now husband. He was a lot older than me and because of the pressures of settling down and having a family, I agreed to marry him when I was 22. I had/have a really poor relationship with my parents so it was very easy for him to isolate me from family and friends until I only spoke to people in the church. We eventually ended up leaving the church only for him to start his own one!

It's been 10 years now and we have three kids age 8,7 and 4. During the pandemic in 2020, I asked for a divorce. He was never at home, barely helped with the kids, contributed the minimum financially. And when we were stuck in the house together I realised we had nothing in common. He is abusive and I was too scared to speak up about it for years. Who would believe me over the charming Pastor?

I went on holiday in Summer 2022 with a friend for the first time without my children and felt desired for the first time in a really long time. I realised that I had been worn down over the years and the horrible things he had said about me were untrue. I got the courage to file for divorce in September, he refuses to sign the papers as he would rather keep up appearances but I'm looking at the legal options.

Just wanted to say I understand what you're going through and that I'm choosing to believe that nothing is impossible.

Thank you so much @Scandimama , I really appreciate your kind words. I feel like I am starting to see that strength and resourcefulness in myself for the first time perhaps.

I was a really high achiever at school and came to uni in the UK which i ended up quitting because of my mum's mental illness issues. Since then I feel like I have been slotted into and have slotted myself into this mental health/troubled background box, and people at church sort of strengthen that narrative. Like today a person I am sort of friends with asked me to invite one of her friends to church. She said her friend struggles with anxiety and that is why she thought I was the right fit to invite her friend to church "because you understand her with all the anxiety". Have never met this person and I have three kids to drag to this service on a Sunday. I just stated at her in the middle of the isle at our church. She then said "you know, with all your mental health problems, and the emotions going up and down".

Our pastor has repeatedly preached from the pulpit saying anxiety is sinful and an networking of a lack of faith and trust in God. Then on the other hand, they once had someone who had had psychosis and killed his mum and sister. Talk about triggering people- I had a full blown panic attack juat listening to him talk about the episode, because it sounded like something I went through with my mum when she was borderline psychotic when I was growing up.

The more I look back on the years I have spent in this church, the more I see how deeply messed up it really is. Luckily I was able to talk to someone who runs a local playgroup in my community, with whom I have developed a good rapport with, and who is also a christian. I told her about a lot of the stuff that goes on in the church and especially amongst the women and she just basically told me to get out asap. It was really validating. I am not the only person who has left this church for similar reasons.

@BeefPho thank you for sharing about your experience. My husband is also older than me, not a lot but enough for us to have been in totally different life stages when we met. He's five years older but i often feel like he is two decades older physically speaking. If you don't mind me asking, are you still living together or have you separated? How are you approaching this all with the kids? Your story gives me hope. It is easy to feel like a really bad christian especially when my husband often spells it out how sinful I am (worse than Jimmy Seville apparently, when I mention divorce, apparently it is worse for our kids than being like a paedophile). But I take comfort in knowing that the first will be last and the last will be first; nobody knows who will receive the biggest crown in Jesus' kingdom, I just ask Jesus to hold onto me and onto our kids. To br fair, DH has never forced me to isolate myself from non-chrisrian friends, but he does disapprove of it when or if i find non-christian friends to be more of a support than christian ones.

I can't express how much it means to me to receive so many kind comments from so many of you. I am just crying reading them. I have decided, though that I will not stay in this rut but will make an active decision to change things. I will build myself and my life up, I will no longet just stay tucked away in a room and isolate myself from my kids. I will start to spend time with them and try to find ways to help my husband get out more. He always says he wants to get out more but "can't" because I am so "reliant" on him. I will no longer accept that. I think it is a massive internal shit I am experiencing to begin with, I am starting to put up safeguards against some of the things I get told and recognise how wrong many of them are.