Who is the abuser?

[Meghat]

I’m really scared of the responses that I’ll get on here but this is an issue that I’ve been playing over in my head for two years.

For the benefit of anyone who’s experienced violence, this talks about it quite a bit and I don’t want to upset anyone so maybe don’t read on?

My ex partner attacked me two years ago and was arrested. I called the police and a neighbour who heard it going on also called the police -I was crying as he was hurting me and they could hear crashing and him shouting. He had hurt me on previous occasions and threatened me on others. This part, I know, sounds really simple.

The relationship that we had was really toxic. We had a good time initially and then I found out that he had been seeing another woman. He lied to me, ignored me, and blew hot and cold until eventually I was so sad that I went back. He also said I was selfish because he’d been trying to let the other woman down gently so I should be more understanding. He also told me that I was being dramatic and taking it too personally. Again, as I’m writing this, I know this is not okay behaviour.

However when I look back on the relationship, there is so much in my own behaviour that makes me feel ashamed. I swore at him when I found out he’s lied to me about meeting a woman, I slammed a door, i once threw my own shoe on the floor as I was putting it on, and sometimes I would say awful, hurtful things to him. It was preceded by him either lying or accusing me of being mad, but I said some incredibly hurtful things - things that I would not normally say. I was also painfully insecure and I would question everything, I would sometimes bombard him with questions and he would say he was overwhelmed or that I needed treatment for anxiety. Because of the lying over a prolonged period of time, I also felt like I was constantly looking for a problems- kind of like the next lie was around the corner? Like if we’d had a good few weeks, I’d get anxious about something, ask a question and he would blow up. I did try to leave on quite a few occasions over other lies but he had this incredible way of talking me around. I also felt really ashamed of how I’d spoken to him or how insecure I’d been, so in my mind, we were both in the wrong.

When he got arrested, he tried to paint me as mad and intimated that I was the abusive one. The police who dealt with it were really kind but the charge was not proceeded with. This kind of woke me up to the person he was, that he would actually injure me and try to suggest it was me in the wrong. I never went back and I am happier without him.

However, I still have this fear that I was also abusive to him. I would make plans in my head about how I would find out if he was lying something (plans that didn’t really come to fruition) and sometimes I was just really hurtful, I told him once that his mum has said she was ashamed of his behaviour (she had said this to me). I was also jealous of a woman at work who he let stay at his house overnight and used to message pictures of him on the sofa etc. There is just so many things i said and thought about that are just so not how I would normally be.

I’ve always prided myself on being strong and most people that know me would say that I don’t take any s**t. (I also know that I’m caring and I will go out of my way to do things for the people I care about).

I’m scared that my personality, mainly being very straight talking, has over spilled into being abusive. Why did I feel the need to question so many things? Why can’t I not say some things- does everything I think need to be said? Why did I say mean things rather than leave? Why, did I not see how far I’d strayed from my own values when I was arguing with him? If I’d have forgiven him, like actually done it, rather than not letting it go, would this still have happened?

I’m now really scared that i will repeat this pattern of behaviour with a new partner and abuse them too. I’ve been in counselling since it happened and it has helped a bit, certainly in the initial bit where I felt guilty for him being arrested. But I’m still single and now 34, I really want to meet someone but until I have this ironed out in my head, I feel myself holding back when I meet people.

I know what he did was abusive, but does it sound like I’ve been abusive too? I would start arguments by asking a question, if I was completely abused, I wouldn’t ask a question that might get a reaction would I? I wouldn’t shout back either surely? When he would get violent, I just kind of let him drag me around but once I tried to take my belongings that he was damaging off of him- if I was being abused, shouldn’t I have been too scared to try to get my stuff off him? Sometimes I would also just have a go at him for doing stuff that he said he wouldn’t do- If I was being abused, would I do this?

I can’t really see myself as a total victim and blame myself for a lot of the bad behaviour. I think that maybe because I resisted a lot, maybe it wasn’t actually abuse, it was just toxic from both or it?

I just wondered if anyone else had experienced anything similar? How have they moved on from this? Does it sound like I’m abusive?

Thank you.

Can’t say for sure if you were abusive or displaying reactive abuse.

Honestly, I think the first thing to tackle is your self esteem, anxiety, and self worth so that you don’t continue relationships that are abusive or that inspire conditions where you are not your best self.

You have a lot of stuff to unpack and I urge you to continue seeing a mental health professionals.

You want a relationship but you pull away….

Once you can tackle your anxiety, rumination, and really work through what happened then you can use it to accept your worth and feel confident in your own judgement.

You still have work to do to get yourself to where you need to be. I say this with care because I think if you do it, you won’t be wondering about your actions when you were in a toxic relationship. You’ll be calmer and if you notice yourself being toxic or a partner you’ll be strong enough to stop it and get even more help.

be the best partner to yourself right now

First of all, of course you were abused. There's no one single picture of what being an abuse victim looks like. Not all victims of abuse have been so scared into submission they never ask any questions or have a go at their partner.

Secondly, abusers don't question whether their behaviour is abusive. Abusive mentalities are inherently so self entitled they don't believe their behaviour is wrong. It's common for abusers to provoke their victims so much that when they lash out and shout and swear, then they can conviently label them the abuser. It's possible for a person to behave poorly without it being abuse. The fact you're reflecting on your own behaviour in this way suggests you're not abusive.

I think some of your actions were not healthy (however triggered). You ask some questions like ‘I wouldn’t ask a question to start an argument would I?, where we all know some people can indeed do this. Only you know, we can’t know for you! The key thing is that you are reflecting on this and looking to get help to improve your own management of anxiety, anger etc before going anywhere near starting another one. You’re perhaps posting for validation that everything you did was justified or you already know some of it perhaps wasn’t. Either way I agree with previous poster that getting some mental health counselling is a great place to start.

When you use the words “hurt me” about the events you contacted the police over, Is this a euphemism to cover up a significant physical assault, or is that not what you meant?

Hurt has a spectrum of meaning. You also use the word to describe what you said to him. What did you say to him that makes you feel crossed a line into being abusive?

It’s interesting that you use the same word to describe both parties as it does seem like nothing you did compares to his abuse.

If I assume that he brutally attacked you and you didn’t say anything to that was abusive, than you’re being way too hard on yourself here. Saying blunt things to someone doesn’t justify a violent, sustained attack. Sometimes the police don’t follow through a report after an investigation, that doesn’t mean the assault didn’t happen. Did they give a reason why they couldn’t proceed?

I think you should be a bit kinder to yourself as the language you use is a bit biased against yourself. Have you considered counselling?

I want to add that if you want to reflect on this relationship, consider what changes you will make to dating again:

Do you feel that there were points where you could have left earlier? Eg he cheated, ignored you and blew hot and cold but you were sad so resumed the relationship. He illogically justified his actions in saying you just “have to understand he was letting the other woman down gently.”

Think about what made you return - desperation, fear of being alone, self esteem etc. As there seemed to be signs that he doesn’t respect you, but you seemed to accept this instead of seeking a healthy relationship where you partner does respect you.

again, it’s something to explore with a counsellor to help you address the underlying cause. Maybe you need to reconsider your view of what a healthy relationship looks like and what your current boundaries are

Objecting to someone cheating on you? Normal. Calling someone names because of cheating? Understandable.
Did I miss you saying you hit him? Because that is clear physical abuse and no excuse or reason exists for it.
It's clear what he did, it's black and white.
Yes abuse can be verbal and mental, but there's no dispute and nothing subtle about physical violence, it should never be a part of a relationship.

Sorry, yes he physically attacked me. It was going on for a few minutes and I only really remember being shoved and then strangled against a wall before being thrown on the floor. I only had a small injury to the back of my head from hitting a wall but I was weirdly glad that I had a lump because I couldn’t tell myself that it hadn’t happened or that I was being dramatic. On other occasions, it was just pushing and dragging, he grabbed me once as well. He sometimes raised his fists or would close me down. He would say he would ruin my career.

This part is black and white, and I know this. You can’t assault someone or make them
fear violence.

But before the physical stuff started, there was a lot of lying from him and anger/anxiety on mine. He lied over 6 months, made up stories that were designed to invoke sympathy from me, and anytime I tried to to talk to him, he would have a go at me, and I’d have a go back. He would tell me that I was making him feel bad about himself if I said he was a cheat, he wouldn’t accept that having another girlfriend was cheating, and refused to apologise. He also made up random lies sometimes. I asked him if fixed something once and when he said he had, I was surprised as I didn’t think it could be fixed. He had a go at me saying that I was always suggesting he couldn’t do stuff- I wasn’t, i just didn’t think it was fixable. Then when we were on FaceTime, I saw the item in the background still very much broken. Then when I asked why he’d lied about something so pointless, he then said that I made him feel inadequate. It was just pointless and was like whatever I’d said would be wrong. A lot of the lies were hard to keep track of too, one week he’d have had sex with his mates girlfriend, then next week he’d deny that he’d ever done that and how dare I think that of him.

My concern is that I chose to stay, and I couldn’t forgive his behaviour. I just got more anxious and angry, and then I started getting nasty. I was so insecure. I feel really ashamed of my behaviours, and the anger that I felt - I was never violent but i would really shout sometimes.

You were traumatised and turned to reactive abuse. It’s absolutely not true that true abuse victims are so scared of their abusers that they never answer back or stand up for themselves. Don’t believe that for a second.
you deserve to move on and be happy. Seek counselling if you can. You were not the abuser.

@Notmyyearthisyear is with it.

Please see someone so that you can understand these things. I was in an emotionally abusive relationship and I did abusive things that could be reactive or not. Doesn’t matter because I was in a toxic situation and it made me accept behaviors from my then partner and myself that were beneath me.

Better to deal with these feelings and keep high standards for yourself and others.