Just can’t let this go - revenge or reconciliation not even sure what I want!

[AmazonianAvatar]

So this is the 12th year with not even so much as a Merry Christmas text from my parents or 7 siblings. It should be easier by now but it isn’t. I live a full life with DH, DC, activities and work. Done extremely well to carry on with life actually after trying to heal from a very traumatic childhood and then being retraumatised by my whole family ganging up against me and ditching me and my DC at my lowest point (when they knew I was in therapy for serious MH issues while raising 4 DC, one a young baby). I’ve moved on and recovered as much as I can but the pain is still very much there at this time of year. Had counselling, blah de blah. Certainly they don’t deserve a second of my thoughts I know that but I just can’t let it go!

I still feel a lot of anger that I was ostracised. It was punishment for sticking up for myself after 40 years as the family scapegoat. I still find it unfathomable that they could all turn their backs on me, and even worse my DC, the eldest 3 they all seemed to be very fond of into their young teenage years, if I was so unhinged (as they thought), why did they not care about their welfare with such a crazy mother at least? They’re fine btw. I never dropped the ball as a highly functional mother and looking back, I’m shocked I was able to function as well as I did.

Two of my DC have had shocking life changing diagnoses (a recent one life threatening and needing lifelong medical care and the other also lifelong but neurological meaning never able to reach independence) since this happened and they don’t care. I’ve not had any family support to deal with it, you know when you just want someone to sound off to and cry on, even over a phone call. I texted my mother to tell her about my youngest’s diagnosis (I was so terrified he might die) after he got out of hospital and narrowly lost his life, and her response was just ‘we hope he stays well’.

Its such an injustice that they can carry on playing the big happy family, and I’m the baddie, left out in the cold. I thought of ways to get revenge on my mother (the instigator), tried to live my best life although she doesn’t care if I’m alive or dead! Can’t hurt her the way she’s hurt me.

Thought of begging for reconciliation just so I can keep in low level contact and still feel part of the family on my terms and my DC have some wider family contact with cousins but I couldn’t be that fake and my mother wouldn’t agree to it anyway. I don’t exist to her anymore - her words.

I don’t want any of them in my life but I can’t seem to get over them not being in my life iukwim. It’s like Stockholm Syndrome and I can’t shake feeling like a pariah especially at Christmas and it filters into relationships outside of my family too. I got though it and made it Christmas special for my DC as always but the feeling of emptiness is always lurking in the background. I just want it to stop and not to have to feel like this for the rest of my life. Can’t even sleep tonight for my mind dredging it up again!

Any wise words?

It sounds like you need some therapy as you really are not over it. You are a good and loving person and there is something. Seriously wrong with all of them if they can't function without having a scapegoat.

You need to change your mind set. One way of going that is to look at yourself in the mirror and say something positive about yourself out loud every day. It might sound weird, and you may not believe it in your heart, you need to "overwrite" all the negative comments you heard for all those years. Gradually they will stick.

Being petty, I would make sure your social media posts are generally private and not viable to any of them, but occasionally make some public ones that show that others have replaced their place as your "family". I'll bet at least one of them will keep an occasional eye on what you post. A bit passive aggressive but a generally harmless way of getting revenge.

It hasn't been going on as long but I'm in the same boat and I feel so hurt and disappointed too. So I know what you mean. The thoughts, and my own hurt reactions keep me up at night.

The scapegoat was only ever going to be tolerated if she played the part they wrote for her. If you offered any feedback or challenged any existing but totally distorted narratives then you are instantly shamed blamed and rejected.

The injustice of it is still hard to accept imo.
That they would lose me rather than just talk to me, listen to me. They cannot have one slightly uncomfortable conversation. Easier in their opinion to write me out of The Play, demonise me, smear me and blame me for destroying the family.

Do you feel less hurt than you did this time last year? That is something I've realised. Nothing has changed. They have had no insight, no epiphanies, no inclination to listen.... but it does hurt me less than it did xmas 2021

It’s a natural normal urge to always want and yearn for your Mother from your gut - but your head / reality comes in to temper that if they are toxic or dead.

Try to see that feeling as “fleeting” and “contextual” - attend to it with self compassion - let yourself feel sorrow and regret because it’s normal/natural to yearn and it’s Christmas.

This is my 4th Christmas being scapegoated from a large family. It’s always painful but we have “replaced” and survived.

I heard on Christmas Eve that it has now happened to another sibling - proving the point that a toxic system always needs a punching bag and scapegoat. I am glad I didn’t endure another 4 years. It’s now someone else’s turn since I went NC.

Brought me some guilty pleasure but also sadness that they will never get better - just keep spinning their toxicity in a smaller circle and made be see that there is zero chance of reconciliation with me.

@ClaryFairchild I am so glad I had therapy but it's not a magic wand. I think it helped me stand really firmly in my own interpretation of what went on. Like, I believe me. I trust me.

They are all smearing me left right and centre with the narrative that I'm crazy but I. Trust. My. Interpretation.

I think that's what therapy helped me with the most.

It still really hurts.

Less so than it did.

@AmazonianAvatar sorry, I just noticed that after twelve years the hurt isn't diminishing at this point. I know it's not what you deserve but I think in a situation like this, there will always be some pain. I want to be in less pain and I am working on that, but I think I accept that it's always going to hurt to a degree.

My mother sounds a similar type of character. Just having a perspective that differed from hers was enough to see me written out. I had the perspective that she hurt me (lots of projection and none of it true). When I asked that it stop, she was the victim of me, she sent my father over, he gave out to me for hurting her. I wanted to talk, they refused, quite self-righteously, very ''wronged'' by me, very hurt that I wanted to talk, how dare I.

I recognised that this is how it's always been. They will not accept feedback, so I stood so firmly in my interpretation that they had hurt me. It was classic DARVO.
They were the victims of me. The End.

I think I thought that after the injury to my mum's ego healed a bit she would take stock and realise, ok, won a PR war here, and all the relatives believe ''my side' but................I've no daughter.'' I'm her only daughter. It's not like she has a few more to crush.

It is baffling. I will never understand it.

@Ticketyboots did your siblings just completely take the side of the parent(s) scapegoating you or excluding you. My brother completely buys in to the narrative that I'm crazy, , angry, paranoid, sensitive and I need to accept their view of me, respect it even and just put up and shut up and say sorry. He used to be known as the logical one. He is so weak.

Have any of your siblings reached out to talk to you? Do they all see you through the exact same lens as your parents?

@JoyPeaceSleep - you are so right, Therapy is not a cure all but it can be an important step. I'm glad it's help you validate your sense of self. I think that's incredibly important when you're surrounded by people trying to make you believe you're the crazy, irrational one. I'm so sorry that your mother is so willing to alienate you even though you're her only daughter.

for both you and op.

Fortunately the crazy makers in my life are not my immediate family and I was able to cut them off with no impact to myself, but it means my DC have lost contact with the majority of their father's side of the family.

Thanks @ClaryFairchild
I am in to the practice of self-compassion as well. I did the exercises in the Kirsten Neff Phd and Chris Germer Phd workbook Mindful self-compassion this time last year and it really helped @AmazonianAvatar
I'm always on the look out for something soothing to listen to ykwim. I loved listening to pete walker's the tao of fully feeling on audible, it doesn't pressure you to forgive, but I did feel just a bit less attachment to the situation after listening to it.
I've listened to every Jay Reid video, every Jerry Wise video, every patrick Teahan video! Every crappy childhood fairy video, and they do all help. There's a lot of help out there and I've helped myself and wanted to heal but there's just still a bit of pain left.

I need to accept that this situation is so not what anybody would want. Why wouldn't there be a bit of pain. I sometimes think I've failed to ''heal'' because I still feel some pain. But I think it's just being a human who is aware of an injustice. But then, life isn't fair.

I'm sorry you are in this situation OP.

I don’t want any of them in my life but I can’t seem to get over them not being in my life iukwim

I think some more therapy will help you process this OP.

I hope this is useful -

www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/podcast-ep-204-lets-talk-about-estrangement/

In all honesty no - they were “just” silent which I read as compliant. I suspect they were scared and it was easier / self preservation to hide in the histrionic Narcs shadow than step into the light and risk annihilation.

They did a huge smear campaign with other relatives which is painful but I have not engaged in a counter offensive because it’s giving it oxygen.

The long game is that I believe others can judge me by MY ACTIONS and not OTHERS WORDS - my relatives have known us all for a lifetime and I have a respected and valued reputation built up over the years.

One sibling will send a xmas / birthday text - I take comfort in that. The other one who has been recently ousted has always been very difficult so I won’t be building an ally there.

The “nice” one who sends birthday texts still excludes my children from any cousin celebrations that she hosts at her home for the family eg 18ths / 21sts (they are all late teens / early twenties) and this hurts my DCs - but the cousins themselves meet independently as and when - but wouldn’t challenge their own parents.

You don't want your kids to be sucked into this, you've got the opportunity to cut it off now. Concentrate on your own family.

Also the reality of my situation is that I was bullied, harassed, smeared and excluded over a very public and sensitive event (a funeral) - the expectation was that I should take that “beating” and then still be in contact through grovelling and subjugation.

That’s when I turned my back and went NC and this action has caused untold rage and fury to the main Narc as they are totally discombobulated that I dropped the rope. So in the end I was expelled by them but they expected me to come back and I haven’t.

It helps me to “see” mine as a hyena or a scorpion - so it’s “when” not “if” then will attack. It’s in their nature - it’s who they are - it’s what they do “naturally”.

My job is to keep myself and my DCs out of striking distance.

But it doesn’t stop my heart conjuring up subconscious wishful images that they are reciprocal warm, lovable and cuddly bunny rabbits.

Thank you all for sharing and sorry if I dredged similar pain up for you 💐

Yes therapy was great for understanding the family dynamic. I had about 3 years worth in total costing £££s. 12 sessions on the NHS didn’t scratch the surface. I had what I now know was OCD since early childhood, diagnosed at 39 after finally getting the courage to go to GP, as thought I was a risk to my DC (manifested into ‘harm’ OCD) extremely difficult to get rid off and it was go to GP and risk getting sectioned and not being allowed around my DC again or commit suicide to keep them safe from me! Seems crazy now but I was suffering so badly. GP just said get thee to therapy, your kids are very safe with you, Years of being told I was evil, crazy and a psycho took a long time to reprogram!

Thing is I adored my mum, was very defensive of her, worried about her, always the one to check she’d arrived safely if travelling, etc, so it was so hard to hear my therapist say I didn’t deserve to be strangled by her at age 12 or be punished for being sexually abused. Made me realise my mother couldn’t deal with it so couldn’t stand to look at me instead, made me think I was evil and dirty so I wouldn’t tell anyone (it was by a family member). Stopped me having contact with my real father from age 9 in case I told him possibly (never got an explanation). The rage I felt at her after realising that was difficult to process especially thinking if it had happened to my own DC.

I dealt with it though very calmly with hindsight, there was no massive argument. I just couldn’t bear to send her a Mother’s Day card that year. I was the one who could always be relied upon to send a card telling her how much I loved her and a lovely gift, so she was upset. I just wanted her to admit it but she wouldn’t (didn’t deny it though) then told everyone I was crazy as she didn’t want them to find out the dirty family secret. I went nuclear and told everyone (via email) but they all pulled rank as I’d upset mum and their loyalty was to her.

Difficult to ‘get over’ losing 30+ family members literally overnight. DC losing cousins. Oldest DC getting married next year, discussing invitations and that half of the church will be virtually empty. A blight on their family history.

Again in hindsight, it was always us travelling the country to visit siblings, they never remembered my DCs birthdays (I always remembered theirs), I was always the topic of jokes or ‘banter’, they hated that I beat them at board games and would gang up to cheat with whoever was left playing me (always remember my brother saying ‘she has to lose’), when I lost a baby DD at 32 weeks no one hugged me at the funeral. One sister shouted at me for not getting in the funeral car straightaway as I’d make them late! They were horrible.

I think it’s s mix of grief and injustice as being cast as the villain which is the hardest to get over. I don’t want to be thought of as that. Older DC have tried to connect with cousins via SM and they never responded. Makes so mad.

hey @AmazonianAvatar I really understand that even though you can see that the situation is terrible, it's still so heart breaking to lose a big family overnight nearly, for just standing up for yourself!? I know if I'd robbed a bank or duped people with a ponsi scheme and ended up shamed by the Daily Mail for fraud I'd be less rejected and excluded.

I felt like all I needed was just an acknowledgement of what had gone on. My father went to a psychiatric hospital with depression and paranoid delusions and yet for decades I was told repeatedly that I was paranoid and sensitive (and emotional and dramatic). Whenever anything upset me and I foolishly verbalised that I was instantly silenced with the ''you're sensitive, you're paranoid'' accusation.

I never demanded an apology but still my father told my brother that ''an apology would be wholly inappropriate'' wow. That was so hurtful. Not sure why he is so convinced of that. But I instantly realised that it would never be forthcoming. I still long for an acknowledgement though. If they won't even acknowledge what happened and that they have history of glossing over it dismissively then how can it be safe to go back for more!?

It won't be. And that's what upsets me. They have proved that it's not safe to go back for more. I thought that a combination of my increased strength and their realisation that they should never have labelled me so incessantly and that silent treatments are never the way to go would make it safe to return. But they just keep proving that what I cannot bear to believe is true.

@Ticketyboots that is well put. I'm not going to launch a counter offense to the smear campaign either.

One aunt sent my teen money or a card and for the second year running I sent a thank you text and got no response at all. In previous years I would have got a friendly you're welcome kind of text. I knew this year there'd be no response. So why did I do it?! I think I wanted her to really confront that she has been drafted in to give me the silent treatment on somebody else's behalf. If she continues to send my teenagers cards for big exams or birthdays I will send a very short acknowledgement of that. But my motivation is not just to do the right thing. My motivation is to make her aware of the choice she is making, ykwim. I saw her son by chance and I was friendly but he was unusually cool with me. He'd always been very warm in the past.
So whatever's out there it's bad!!!! Even though I know that all i did was have an angry reaction to DARVO and being silenced shamed blamed and rejected.

@ClarathecrosseyedLioness I listened to that podcast at four am! Thank you. I thought I'd fall asleep to it but she knows what she's talking about. I have two of her books on my shelf and she's about as sound and sane as you can hope to me with a less than perfect start and lots of generational estrangement. At one point neither of her divorced parents were talking to her. She is right that estrangement is all about roles. I think my role was ''one under''. In the style of I'm ok, you're ok. My mother is very repressed and defensive and her way of dealing with anything that comes up is to instantly shame the other person for having emotions. So my position in the family has been from her point of view I'm ok, you're not ok. I healed a lot. I was working on my self-esteem and I tried to go in to a situation where there was conflict with an I'm ok, you're ok starting point and it made her furious. Any expectation that we could sort it out with communication made her angry.
Because that challenges her ''I'm ok, you're not ok'' position which is carved in to STONE

I must listen to her podcast about roles. Probably heard it all before as I consume all of this so voraciously! but it's number 128 she said.

One more thing, I ordered a book that is often recommended on Patrick Teahan, Jerry wise channels ''Rejected shamed and blamed'' and it's quite a short read, but it does say that it's always the same. The scapegoat is always MAD. This is the way to reinforce their narrative as the sane one, and yours as the insane one. Always the same. Nobody is ever scapegoated for being too logical or too rational or too unemotional. Funny that.!

@JoyPeaceSleep I listened to that podcast at four am! Thank you.

Glad to have helped - upwards & onwards as they say 🙂

I would like to show you photos of three pages (16, 17 & 18) from the book "Rejected, Shamed, Blamed" by Rebecca Mandeville, but I'm unsure as to whether it would be allowed to reproduce it on an open forum. It is certainly something which has helped me understand the scapegoat dynamic which I've been in now for years, particularly since I divorced my XH in 2017.

I really feel for you - you can't change them but you can change your response and reaction to them. I'll see if I can DM you.

@HolliDays - I would love to see those pages - I am sure it is fine to share? I have had issues with PMs since the site “upgrade”

@Ticketyboots here goes - I tried DMing @AmazonianAvatar but I can't send screenshots...

I'm hopeful they're in the correct order!

@HolliDays - thanks for sharing this - a very helpful read.