Illegitimate children

[ImJustMadAboutSaffron]

Yes I know it's a horrible term isn't it? Almost like fake or not real. I'm surprised to find it still used.

I read an article about a woman whose husband died and she had two children after his death by IVF using his sperm. The article stated that as the father was dead when the children were conceived they were "illegitimate".

Is there a place for this word in 2022? I don't think so

But it is your take on it that it is a 'horrible' word?

It literally means a child born out of wedlock. That is a literal description of a fact. It doesn't mean fake or not real. There is no value judgement or criticism such as you are implying.

Legally there is a small difference between the status of a legitimate and an illegitimate child in certain circumstances, one which will make no difference to the vast majority of children but which nevertheless exists.

The majority of children now born in the UK are illegitimate - no-one takes offense at that any more, do they?

The word isn’t my main takeaway from that story. Did he consent to his sperm being used after his death?

She said they'd always talked about having a large family but there was no written consent so she had to go to court and I believe the IVF treatment took place in Belgium.

given that the father was already dead so there could be no inheritance issues, I think the only way the distinction would matter would be if the deceased father held a hereditary title, and all the elder siblings died without issue. I think in that case the title would pass to the nearest cousin born in wedlock rather than any issue born out of wedlock. the duration of a marriage is very specific "until death us do part" so yes a child born after that term would have the same legal status as those born before.

I agree it's a distasteful word and if the legal distinction is kept that gives those born to married parents different rights to those born to unmarried then a new word should be created. illegitimate literally means Illegal and its totally disingenuous to claim there's no value judgement in the word. of course there is. either the word should be replaced with something that doesn't have any such connotations or the law should be changed to abolish the distinction such that the term becomes obsolete anyway.

At least they are not referred to as bastards anymore. It is a redudundant term IMO.

Agree, it says more about the person who would say it.

It was "removed" from the irish constitution in 1986. I dont know what that meant in practical terms though; that the child had all the same rights to inherit I think. You do hear it said, occasionally still, but only by a certain type. Imo

The historical demeaning of people who were born illegimate is the problem not the word itself. As a previous poster has said there is no stigma attached now to being born to unmarried parents.

You've brought back a memory of my MIL. Her son and I got married in a registry office and she said that because we hadn't got married in a Catholic church, her GC were illegitimate!

Wow, that is really offensive. Being religious is not the same as being a good person.

I think it's an offensive term ditto 'bastard'.
What about if the parents were unmarried but the child was registered in the father's name officially on their birth certificate? Clearly, the father did recognise the child officially here.

Illegitimate literally means 'not legitimate'. I think it absolutely implies judgment or criticism.

the duration of a marriage is very specific "until death us do part"

DH and I had a church wedding almost 40 years ago (CoS) and we didn't vow "til death" because my minister didn't believe death parts you. (Didn't vow to obey either lol!) I wonder where that would place any dc either of us would have had with a new partner, had one of us died?

Back in the day, a bastard child was one born to a married woman, but not fathered by her husband. Such a child could be recognised by the father by giving it the surname "Fitz...(gerald, harold etc)