Can someone explain the difference between control, coercion and coercive control to me please!

[DivorcingEU]

The question in short: In relationships what is the difference between those three, and ideally not in extreme terms (ie coercing someone into committing a crime).

Long version with some maybe unnecessary examples, if you want more info as to why I'm asking:
I've read the law on what coercive control is, but it seems to be about getting someone to commit a crime on your behalf, or something big like that. Or coerce someone into sex - which just seems like rape to me. I can understand those big examples.

But surely before it gets to that point, if it ever even does, it's more subtle and nuanced? And that's what I'm really struggling to see. Where are the dividing lines between those three?

I'm not sure if I'm being clear, because I'm unclear on my head. So two examples of areas I see as grey - but might not be.

1. "D"H won't have sex with me for months because I don't greet him properly when he arrives home from work (I'm WFH at the time), or the house wasn't tidy enough (we had a cleaner twice a week and no kids!!). He would act very upset and hurt that I didn't care about his feelings enough to meet these needs outside the bedroom so he said it put him off even giving me a hug. Is this just control? Or something else? What is it?

1. "D"H wanted me to stay home and look after the kids and enable him to go further in his career. He never said this to me. Ever. Never even hinted at it. I wanted to study and retrain while kids young so I could also have a career. I spoke about this. He never said no. Never remotely negative. But in hindsight, he just put hurdles in the way all the time, subtly, in ways which meant I had to stay at home with the kids (study part-time with OU was only way I could manage). When I've tried to change things he's always hurt and sad and I've upset him, not been caring to him, not spoken in the right tone of voice or taking his big important job and stress into consideration. This went on for years. Finally I twigged and confronted him and he said "What do you expect? How can you have a career, you have children [his children!] and I have my career." So all along he was manipulating me to meet his needs. While I (stupidly..) thought we were working together as a team. I had no idea he thought this at all. Is that control? Coercion? Something else?

He's never violent physically or sexually (he'd not touch me over being violent). So I've never felt threatened like that. But there has been financial abuse running under this so I've been afraid of his power there. Again that's never directly threatened it.

There are loads of other examples and I've not explained it in detail because they've be so long. Maybe the examples are irrelevant. But I just can't get my head around what the difference is between control, coercive control and coercion.

The outcome of it was I kind of lost my mind. Couldn't make decisions about anything without consulting him. Lost all my self confidence. Basically was unrecognisable from who I was before we met - and only in negative ways. And I'm now divorcing him.

The outcome of it was I kind of lost my mind. Couldn't make decisions about anything without consulting him. Lost all my self confidence.
That loss of your sense of self to the point where you are unable to make decisions is common when you have been in a controlling relationship, and explains your confusion. Its often much easier to see a situation that you aren't involved in.
Work on finding your sense of self again. If you find yourself being bogged down in detail, try to let it go and do something else instead, because its really not in your best interests to reinforce the behaviour he created.

Controlling behaviour is changing another persons behaviour, often with a threat attached for non compliance.
The crime of coercive control was introduced as a way to recognise that compliance is not always enforced with violence or a threat of violence.
Coercion is manipulative behaviour. There will be consequences for non compliance, but they will be emotional abuse rather than physical.

Just give the examples to your solicitor and make sure you pick one that has a good track record with DA. Women's Aid may be able to give you the names of some in your area.

Hi @DivorcingEU , I can relate to so much of what you are saying.

This video series is on explaining Coercive control.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXrH0lW0vtxrc4TD4rzlNu89UWxE3Jvzo

Someone can be controlling or coercive in one specific way or relating to one aspect of a relationship but 'coercive control' refers to an overall dynamic between two people where one has more control across most areas of the relationship; it affects the whole undercurrent of the relationship. Each situation is so nuanced and individual so you can read a lot of material but if the examples are extreme or don't seem apply it is very easy to to back into self-doubt.

It is only since leaving that was able to identify I was controlled in areas I didn't think I was being controlled in, and start to really accept that I has experienced coercive control, but the confusion and swinging back and forth continued for quite some time.

The instances you described certainly sound like they fit a pattern of coercive control. A question I found helpful was - would you feel as confused as you do if you were in a relationship that wasn't psychologically abusive? The answer is no - you simply wouldn't be experiencing the level of confusion that is the hallmark of gaslighting and profound psychological abuse.

I would be interested to know what you think of the video series if your watch it.

I live in an EU country, & only on mn did I discover what my H does is "gas lighting", there is not a word for it here.
I have a friend who is divorcing her H currently, he is also a champion gaslighter, I told her this behaviour has a name, "Gas lighting", & explained, she had never heard of the term, She is a British national.
I have talked at length with her about her H's behaviour. she was one of the strongest women I knew, & ended up completely controlled & almost broken.
He has also annexed their children who have fallen for the "poor Papa", to the extent her young adult daughter will no longer speak to her.
In simple words, they use the power they have once you have children, they have the finances under their control. You become dependant & they become Master.
they don't see you as a living, thinking independent woman, just an tool to do the tasks required for their comfort. This is a great feeling for them, they are on top.
The abuse, & control, (or coercion) is because you are in the position of wanting to keep your children (& self) safe as they grow, you really have no option. particularly, as with me, I knew I had no rights to remove my DC from the country should we separate. Nowhere to go, No money (& no support as there is in the UK)
Your brain turned to soup, & still is really, because you are trying to put words on his behaviour to fully understand. in a language where there is no vocabulary (& no law) that covers it.
One thing is certain, once you are away from your manipulative self righteous "Big man", the FOG (fear obligation & guilt) will clear.
Onwards & Upwards

Mix this The abuse, & control, (or coercion) is because you are in the position of wanting to keep your children (& self) safe as they grow, you really have no option. particularly, as with me, I knew I had no rights to remove my DC from the country should we separate. Nowhere to go, No money (& no support as there is in the UK) resonates in particular. Being abroad adds a whole extra layer of vulnerability. I sometimes wonder if he'd have been able to control me in the way he has if I was in my home country. Not only are there actual laws there about CC but my starting position would have been far less vulnerable. When you have people who did know you not too far away, or can you speak the language fluently and know how the basic systems work, or that there are women's organisations, or how social services work (or even know the name for social services to start with!), the position is very different. I'd definitely have been able to leave a good 8 years ago if I was in the U.K. And 8 years less of this shit would have been utterly life-altering.

Sorry you've been in it too.

SwimInTheRain wow! I will be watching those. Hadn't come across them before. They're quite long so can't do it just yet, but looking forward to getting stuck in. Thank you.

control=making a victim do things
coercion=ways in which someone makes a victim do things. This can be psychological (as you describe) emotional, financial, or in numerous other ways.

coercive control= As above, or legally it's a pattern of numerous ways of coercively controlling someone's life.

Thanks. I didn't see this at the time but it's good to have it repeated. I am beginning to get my head around this but I don't think it can be repeated enough.

I was in a coercive marriage for nearly 20 years, @DivorcingEU and I’m now out the other side of divorce with him. I understand that you need to analyse your past situation, especially if you’re in a country where the coercion is not recognised.

Ive found reading Lundy Bancroft really useful. Also doing The Freedom Programme www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/ which you can do online. I see a therapist, too.

I read up on it a lot. It’s so insidious… hard to often put into words. The tone of the voice, the clenched jaw (that was my sign things were about to go wrong), the subtle put downs, the refusal to have a joint bank account (because it worked for his parents), separate housekeeping money, hating most of my friends. Never having any idea of our financial situation.

By the time I left, I could barely do my shoelaces up without asking his permission.

Strangely, meditation has been useful in accepting it, and not blaming myself. I’ve not forgiven him, but he lives in peace up here <taps head>. On the outside, he’s a wealthy good looking retired bloke. No shortage of women in his wake. But he gets rid of them when they become ‘difficult’.

Meanwhile, I’m now in full control of my finances. I’m playing catch up, and read the business sections of the weekend papers. I feel properly grown up again.

So… keep working at it. Keep reading. MN is obviously a very good source of info too, and plenty of us who ‘wear the t shirt’.

I understand what you mean when you say coercive control seems planned, but often it isn't, it's often a part of them, they don't even do it in a planned way, it's who they are and how they work.

Often a learned part of their personality from a parent, they think it's a normal way to behave and treat their partner.

I can hear how confused you are, I also have the pages and pages of words where I used to write down what had happened because so often I would be told I was remembering things wrong. It's heartbreaking to read, I've never been able to go back to those pages either and I'm now 14 months out of the relationship.

Occasionally I do think there would be some real value for others in posting them on a blog of sorts, the validation is so important, I can hear it in your posts.

I would suggest a really good therapist who specialises in abusive relationships to help you make sense of your experiences, I know people say well you're out of it now but it does matter being able to make sense or order your thoughts after so much time being confused by it all.

Wishing you all the best x