Fathers of daughters vs fathers of sons

[piddocktrumperiness]

My partner has a 13 yr old who he sees everyday after school, and then she sleeps over a few days in the week, when she wants to and it's the lack of structure that I'm looking for advice on here. I have a son myself and in the week I already organise with my son and with his dad when he has him, and when my son stays with me- so I know what is happening in my week and can relay this to my current partner should we want to make plans.

He however, struggles to do the same and is pretty much along the adhoc route. This has often derailed plans that we had made. There have been times where the daughter will tell him in the morning before school that she wants to stay over, only to then after school say she wants to sleep over at her friends house or bring her friends over for a sleepover- there have been other days where she says she wants to sleepover, so I cancel plans to then change her mind after school and he seems perfectly fine with that.

My dp has said he just feels guilty not seeing her and maybe making her upset by saying no. So I suggested if he plans ahead a little, he can see her more of the week, but this time the days will be known to him and to me, rather than guessing on the day. I also said that children like structure and that he would actually be seeing her more, not less- what he won't be doing is leaving it all up to the little girl.

I have dated men in the past who have had sons and they seemed a little more ok with adding structure to their weeks when it came it the kids. So it was easier to know when we both had our children and we both were free.

So is this a sons vs daughters in the eyes of fathers thing or is this an isolated scenario?

I wanted to add that my dp is aware of the derailing and really wants for us to have more time together but he has said he doesn't know how to go about doing this.

If this is the way they've always done things, then girlfriend coming in putting in rules about when she can see her dad is going to cause a lot of upset and hurt.

You seeing the dad isn't the default setting you're casting it as. Her seeing her dad is the default setting, which is as it should be.

Instead of trying to enforce what nights she gets, you need to arrange date nights, where he says to her, he's out with you that night. You're framing it wrong, you're the interloper, not her.

So is this a sons vs daughters in the eyes of fathers thing or is this an isolated scenario?

Of course it isn't. How weird of you to draw such a conclusion. Your DP is maybe just a bit more relaxed and doesn't need structure?

I don’t think this is a daughter thing. It’s probably your SD feeling insecure. Not sure the solution. Personally I wouldn’t feel comfortable rejecting my child coming to my house if I was able to have them. So I do see your DPs perspective. But must also be hard for you. Ultimately when you date someone with kids, it needs to work for you and the family. If, for whatever reason, you can’t blend to a degree then it may be time to call it a day for everyone’s sakes,

How old is your son? I don't see why this would be a father daughter thing but it could be a teenager thing. My teens have their own lives and plans but because they're young it's all pretty spontaneous. They also still like to spend time with us. Your sd clearly treats her dad's home like her own home which is good and as it should be but means she's coming and going as she pleases.

Tbf, if yours is a week by week arrangement, you don't have all that much structure either.
I'd say adjust his DD's behaviour gradually - it's not doing her any favours in the long run letting her dictate and change at her whim. If you plan something on a specific day, he tells his DD that day is out as an option, stick by it. Cancelling your plans because your DP is being soft would drive anyone mad.

Thank you everyone. My arrangement with the ex is week on week off so the entire year is predictable- although school holidays are fluid.
My son is a few years older than SD.

I am trying to find a way to make this work so everyone is happy. I do not want to take anytime away from the daughter, not at all, but I would like some communication or a little bit of planning ahead because I believe my time is also important, not just with him, but in my own life commitments. I don't like not knowing how my week is looking and having a plan a b and c all the time.

I know my dp wants to find a way, I don't know what to say to him because it's his daughter and so I do not feel comfortable giving too much of an opinion- I'd like a diplomatic way of approaching this so I don't upset anyone

You are a planner, OP, and that works for you, your son, and your ex.

Your BF is not a planner, and that works for him, his daughter, and presumably his ex.

He obviously prefers things being fluid, ad hoc and spontaneous.

I think honestly this is a basic incompatibility. You could wait it out until the DD is a few years older, but I think ultimately you have a very different approach and this is just the first sign of it.

(I'm also a planner btw and agree that children generally benefit from a more structured approach. But it's his call, not yours.)

Totally disagree- the dd is treating her dad's place like her own home. She comes and goes, changes plans if she wants, is confident that she's always welcome. That's great. It has worked for her and her father this far.

Changing the goalposts so she's "structured" into not treating it like her own home is not an improvement or benefit to her in any way.

I am unclear as to whether you are living together or not.

If you are simply dating and meeting a couple of times a week when you are both free then back off...because it is not your place to try to change his existing arrangements.

His daughter is his first priority and rightly so.

But surely one should be able to have the capacity to have a relationship with one's daughter and one's partner- it's not an either or. I don't have this issue with my son or his father. This is my son's home and my son knows that but he does know that in the week he is with his dad it's father and son time and the week he is with me it's mother and son time. This allows for his dad to do what he wants with his new family too. There is flexibility built into that though should shifts, illness or something come up.

My Dp knows exactly what days I don't have my son and so he is able to book a place or something for us to do or come over- but those get derailed by last minute change of mind and I don't understand why this has to happen. I'd love to be able to look ahead and book a show or something for us to do when I find tickets or something but it is a challenge when his daughter and ex spring something up at the very last minute.

There must be another way

@category12 I do like your suggestion of just getting some green light and arrange date nights and communicate that with him. I suppose I'd have to always look for refundable options and free cancellations.

Saying that- I do remember a few years ago when we first started dating I would suggest something for us to do and it would be greeted by excitement followed by "ooh not sure whether I'll have _ that day"

And when I asked him to pick another day he can have his daughter he would say he did not want to get an earful from the mother and that usually this arrangement is just adhoc. But if you are inviting someone to be in a relationship with you, you would need to make time to build it, together and sometimes alone and the lack of structure can make the whole situation precarious

I don't think you should have to build in cancellation - he should be able to say to the dd that's he's out on a particular night and have that respected.

But that's a bit different to changing her stays to set days.