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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Would these things be deal breakers?

70 replies

TheCunningLinguist · 26/11/2022 16:56

Hi looking for perspective here!!

Met my partner at work following a divorce. At the time I was struggling to get a mortgage large enough to keep my house & he very kindly offered to come on to the mortgage to help me out. He wrote a very generous legal agreement protecting my equity in the property.

When we met I was attracted to his intellect, his ambition and his worldview. I found him attractive too if course.

Fast forward 4 years and I’m really struggling. He still works in a high powered role but now100% from home. He never leaves the house. Has no friends. Drinks a lot every night. His only social engagements are work drinks- and it’s rare he’ll do that. He never, ever brushes his teeth and he really smells at night and in the morning in particular. He has generally low standards of hygiene, dirty food-stained clothes. He smokes SO much it’s unreal. He doesn’t clean. He does however cook a lot - but he always cooks massive meals that are really unhealthy and then leaves everything dirty so I have to clean it. I do all other housework too - unless I’m annoyed then he’ll do some.

he is a very kind and generous person (as helping me with getting a mortgage demonstrates). But when he’s not working he’s a big like a shell, scrolling Facebook or playing Call of Duty.

he’ll do anything I ask - but would never take the initiative to do something himself - like anything. I guess he doesn’t bring much of himself into our relationship - in fact I’m not sure if there is any “himself”…. It’s like there’s a work persona, then outside work there’s a shell that can do people pleasing / servitude if needed.

He is brilliant to talk to and if I ever have a problem he has amazing advice and he’s super loyal.

am I wrong to be reconsidering this relations?

OP posts:
Monty27 · 27/11/2022 05:11

Apart from him helping you out with the mortgage and throwing some food together occasionally why is it you're with this person. He should stayed where he was. In the pub or wherever you found him

dieselKiller · 27/11/2022 06:12

Sounds like you care for this man who appears to be a depressed alcoholic. Are you sure you know exactly how much he drinks?

If you think you can help him, try and get him to cut down the alcohol. Do not encourage him to (or let him) cut alcohol out completely in one go, it’s dangerous.

Consider making a plan with him where he reduces his bad habits over time, reducing the drinking, reducing the smoking, increasing the tooth brushing, reducing the device use, increasing the home care. If you’re unable to agree on a staged, gradual plan to turn things around, that will tell you both something. If you agree on the plan, but he has trouble sticking to it, that will be revealing.

I think your partner is susceptible to addictions, so it will likely not be easy for him to reduce his alcohol and device use, but if you can both agree to be honest about progress against the plan, this will become apparent.

Consuming that much alcohol is brain-changing and has serious liver effects which may explain some of his behaviours. Do you see any signs of liver damage? Does he bleed or bruise easily? (Is he avoiding brushing his teeth because his gums bleed and the bleeding doesn’t stop?). Do you see any yellowing of his skin or eyes?

Also can you be sure he’s not suffering vitamin deficiency from poor diet?

You do not have to stay with him, but you’d certainly be giving him a gift if you could be honest with him.

Personally, I’d encourage a staged reduction in smoking, but I’d also institute an immediate ban on smoking in the house. It’s not fair on your kids.

dieselKiller · 27/11/2022 06:40

None of the behaviours you describe are acceptable btw. The lack of tooth brushing is a clear sign of mental ill health. I’d be getting him to keep a chart of when he brushes his teeth. The expectation would be brushing morning and night immediately, but if it’s not at least every day within 2 weeks and morning and night within 3 weeks, that’d be it. I worry that if your standards are this low with your partner, how can you expect him to help you keep reasonable standards for your kids?

You can have a better life than this.

openinggambit · 27/11/2022 07:16

I only had to read the first couple of lines really....has no friends, drinks a lot and doesn't brush his teeth. It's a no from me.

Kellaher · 27/11/2022 08:40

dieselKiller · 27/11/2022 06:12

Sounds like you care for this man who appears to be a depressed alcoholic. Are you sure you know exactly how much he drinks?

If you think you can help him, try and get him to cut down the alcohol. Do not encourage him to (or let him) cut alcohol out completely in one go, it’s dangerous.

Consider making a plan with him where he reduces his bad habits over time, reducing the drinking, reducing the smoking, increasing the tooth brushing, reducing the device use, increasing the home care. If you’re unable to agree on a staged, gradual plan to turn things around, that will tell you both something. If you agree on the plan, but he has trouble sticking to it, that will be revealing.

I think your partner is susceptible to addictions, so it will likely not be easy for him to reduce his alcohol and device use, but if you can both agree to be honest about progress against the plan, this will become apparent.

Consuming that much alcohol is brain-changing and has serious liver effects which may explain some of his behaviours. Do you see any signs of liver damage? Does he bleed or bruise easily? (Is he avoiding brushing his teeth because his gums bleed and the bleeding doesn’t stop?). Do you see any yellowing of his skin or eyes?

Also can you be sure he’s not suffering vitamin deficiency from poor diet?

You do not have to stay with him, but you’d certainly be giving him a gift if you could be honest with him.

Personally, I’d encourage a staged reduction in smoking, but I’d also institute an immediate ban on smoking in the house. It’s not fair on your kids.

Consider making a plan with him where he reduces his bad habits over time, reducing the drinking, reducing the smoking, increasing the tooth brushing, reducing the device use, increasing the home care. If you’re unable to agree on a staged, gradual plan to turn things around, that will tell you both something. If you agree on the plan, but he has trouble sticking to it, that will be revealing.

Please don’t consider putting yourself and your DCs through this merry-go-round.

It would be futile like pushing water up hill. This is someone is is so deeply in need of professional help.

Prioritise your DCs and yourself. You have all been through enough with the family breakdown. You have a lot to continue to rebuild and repair for your DCs emotional development.

We all have finite emotional resources, headspace and time - choose wisely where to direct it - your DC and yourself - so that you can have a light, positive home and future.

What’s his relationship history?

Alcholism is a progressive disease even if you drink the same - the body degrades and the MH spirals - I suggest you can track this decline in the time you have been together.

Its just a matter of time before he loses his job, has an accident or another health crisis. Probably not to far away.

Would you chose then to pay the mortgage and care for an incapacitated alcoholic for the rest of his life?

I would move this situationship on rapidly.

Prioritise your DCs if you find it hard to prioritise yourself.

Indignation · 27/11/2022 20:16

@TheCunningLinguist how are you doing?

TheCunningLinguist · 28/11/2022 10:41

Thanks for asking @Indignation

i feel quite worried. A lot of my childhood was moving from one place to another and so I wonder if I have a tendency to just disrupt things - throw everything up in the air / break stuff …. I’m not sure if I’m capable of loving a partner in the long term (I have no problem loving my family / my kids)…. But I don’t know if I’m capable of a long term relationship - I’m not sure why.

I want to make brilliant decisions- that are right for my kids.

I was thinking of getting some therapy to see if that might help.

OP posts:
whattodo1975 · 28/11/2022 10:54

Turf him out. Sounds a horrendous way to live. I imagine you are feeling a bit duty bound as he helped you in the start.

He maybe be autistic and he may be depressed, but frankly these aren't your problems to solve, you arent his mum.

You are 42 and have a lot of life to live.

80s · 28/11/2022 11:01

I had a similar early childhood (parents divorced, moving around) and if anything I wonder if it's made me more likely to crave stability and not complain too much.
Teeth-brushing is such a basic expectation in a partner. Could it be that you are not very good at voicing/getting your needs in a relationship, so you end up feeling trapped/smothered/unhappy and want to escape?

forrestgreen · 28/11/2022 11:10

If he has redeeming qualities I'd have a straight talking chat.
Eg
Dp I'm very unhappy and I'm considering leaving you because you don't care of yourself and it's very unattractive. So if you don't clean your teeth/shower/wear clean clothes we won't have sex. I'll make a chart to share housework, you'll need to contribute fairly to our household. And I'm not happy about how much you're drinking, it's not setting a good example for ds. Please think about these and we can talk tomorrow.

See if he can put the effort in?

Mari9999 · 28/11/2022 11:31

You made an interesting statement about bringing many of the perceived problems from your previous relationship with you into this relationship. Have you considered that you may be a part of the problem in this relationship? Was this man's hygiene so poor when you met him? Surely, if he is given to not bathing and wearing dirty clothes that would have been obvious before you began the relationship. If these are new issues, they may be tied to depression and unhappiness. Is it possible that he feels a bit used in this relationship? You needed his help in the beginning and may have been far less critical because he was resolving your property issues. It could be that having resolved your issues , he no longer feels that you need or want him, and you may no longer need or want him.

You seem to respect his intellect , but you don't seem to have any emotional investment in this relationship. It appears to be purely transactional. He assisted you when you needed help , and you reimbursed him by entering into this relationship. You say absolutely nothing about loving or even just being fond of him.

This has to be emotionally draining for both of you. It does not appear to be a situation in which you can hope to make changes in order to recapture what was. There is nothing to recapture.

If the two of you were to go to seek relationship counseling, you might find a way to make something of your situation. Fixing him will not solve the problem; both of you need help.

Pythonese · 28/11/2022 11:36

he very kindly offered to come on to the mortgage to help me out.

🤔...... hmmmmmm !.

KettrickenSmiled · 28/11/2022 12:14

I was struggling to get a mortgage large enough to keep my house & he very kindly offered to come on to the mortgage to help me out.
Hold on OP.
You seem to think he was doing you a favour.
How about – you also did HIM a favour – by sharing a mortgage with him to help him out?
He wrote a very generous legal agreement protecting my equity in the property.
What do you mean – “he wrote”? Please tell me you had your own legal representation, separate from his?
& why do you think it was generous to have your interest in the property protected? That should be a given!

When we met I was attracted to his intellect, his ambition and his worldview. I found him attractive too if course.
And now he doesn’t share any of his intellect, ambition & worldview with you.
It’s ok to find that disappointing.

He still works in a high powered role but now100% from home. He never leaves the house. Has no friends. Drinks a lot every night. His only social engagements are work drinks- and it’s rare he’ll do that. He never, ever brushes his teeth and he really smells at night and in the morning in particular. He has generally low standards of hygiene, dirty food-stained clothes. He smokes SO much it’s unreal. He doesn’t clean. He does however cook a lot - but he always cooks massive meals that are really unhealthy and then leaves everything dirty so I have to clean it. I do all other housework too - unless I’m annoyed then he’ll do some.
See my point about you imagining he’s been generous, above, OP?
he has an affordable mortgage because you agreed to share with him.
Now he has a built in, free housekeeper too.
He gets worryingly pissed every night, is unhygienic & unhealthy - & you are treated as if you barely exist, except to service the house.
he is a very kind and generous person (as helping me with getting a mortgage demonstrates)
What’s kind about never engaging with you? About being filthy, about expecting you to do ALL the domestic drudgery?
And let me say this again OP – YOU were generous to help HIM get this mortgage. & please don’t knee-jerk defend him with any stuff about how he could have afforded it on his own because of his high-powered job. Even if he could – he still chose not to, until you came along. Maybe he only wanted to buy if he had a co-mortgagee. Or a housekeeper.
But when he’s not working he’s a big like a shell, scrolling Facebook or playing Call of Duty.
it’s like he’ll do anything for me - but if it relates to himself he won’t consider changing.
Do anything for you except stop gaming, drinking, gaming, smoking, cooking junk food, being stinky, making a huge mess in the kitchen for you to deal with, housework, talking with you of an evening …

I think I’m not sure if I am being shallow or not
Please stop blaming yourself like this. It’s really NOT shallow to want partnership. Basic adulting. Half shares on chores. Talking to each other. None of this is a big ask – it’s necessary & normal.

he never, ever brushes. And I’ve told him a number of times how much it bothers me but he doesn’t seem to want to… there is intimacy - but yes it does put me off.
You allude to a difficult childhood where this became a contentious issue. So maybe this is more than laziness – but if it is – it is JIS issue to fix, not YOU issue to tolerate. He needs to see a GP, get a clinical referral, get some help with how to start managing basic self-care.

And you are NOT obliged to tolerate intimacy with him when his hygiene remains revolting. You do not owe him that - ok?

yeah no internal life. Just seems really content with sitting in one room scrolling whatever screen. And he can have really interesting povs if asked but recently I’ve noticed unless I start a convo he will just sit there. Like, for a week. It’s so weird. But maybe it’s not odd and he’s fine.
It’s odd.
It’s not fine.
You are reasonable to expect interaction ith your partner. He is treating you like a piece of the furniture. It’s normal & healthy to want more.

like what is it about the fact that every day he rolls out of bed, smokes a fag, has a 30 minute poo and then spends all day on the sofa that is actually a problem? I can still go out, I can still do stuff, I still have a morning routine. So why is it actually a problem for me that he does that??
maybe I am just very controlling about how I want the people around me to be?!
IT IS NOT CONTROLLING TO EXPECT YOUR ROMANTIC PARTNER TO BE ENGAGED WITH LIFE, WITH YOU, WITH MAKING YOUR RELATIONSHIP & HOUSEHOLD WORK FOR YOU.
and I did have a rough childhood - not physically abusive - but we weren’t really prioritised and so it is hard for me to put myself first - see the wood for the trees, or really know what I feel sometimes.

on the financials. I have a good job & if I had to move out of this home & downsize I could. Right after my divorce I just didn’t feel able….
Do you feel able now OP?
Because I think some focus on just you & your DC for a year or 2 would do you so much good.
You are accepting so much poor behaviour – for whatever reasons, if his MH/neurodiversity is causing this much of a problem (it is! It’s ok to recognise that!), or if he is just plain lazy – the REASONS are not yours to deal with. The EFFECT is yours to deal with. You & your DC don’t need to be living with this disappointment & this terrible role-modelling.

Instead of dealing with that as a sad & uncomfortable fact – you are turning your discomfort against yourself with your constant refrain of “maybe it’s not him, it’s me, maybe I should be gratefiul, expect less, how can I convince myself to tolerate more of this non-partnership?”
It’s OK to expect more. It’s ok to remove you & your DC from life with an alcoholic who avoids communication & can barely cope with his own self-care, let alone maintaining a healthy relationship.

But he could consume 4-8 cans of lager a night through the evening & smoking too… I’m definitely definitely conscious of the kids seeing this and it’s a big part of my decision making. But then also, as I say, he’s good at understanding people & talking with the boys. He also makes stuff out of wood, plays guitar and is in other ways a good role model - practical. It’s when they’re at school that he just sits there vacantly….
He has to deal with his problems. It is not your job or responsibility to fix him.
You need to prioritise your DC & yourself.

i feel quite worried. A lot of my childhood was moving from one place to another and so I wonder if I have a tendency to just disrupt things - throw everything up in the air / break stuff …. I’m not sure if I’m capable of loving a partner in the long term (I have no problem loving my family / my kids)…. But I don’t know if I’m capable of a long term relationship - I’m not sure why.
You don’t need to consider your capability for a LTR right now.
All you need to consider is getting you & your DC out from this dysfunctional situation.

I want to make brilliant decisions- that are right for my kids.
Choose yourself & them.
What would the logistics of leaving look like – financial., legal, practical steps toward accommodation just for you & them?

I was thinking of getting some therapy to see if that might help.
Please, please do.
With a therapist well versed in dysfunctional family dynamics.
This is certainly NOT to suggest there is anything wrong with you.
If anything you are too thoughtful, too kind, too self-effacing.

I hope you find a brilliant therapist who can hold you hand as you rake over your family background, assess what eroded your boundaries & self-esteem, & who challenges your minimising attitude to your own needs & preferences. Flowers

waterrat · 28/11/2022 12:53

Op i think you are losing the will to live if you think you are being controlling..he has given up on life and you want to have more...more fun..more dynamism....more basic self care.

80s · 28/11/2022 13:34

I also think some therapy would be good to get some other possible viewpoints. Tried it myself and found it really useful just to get some fresh input and see things from a new angle.
Are you really a linguist? If you speak German I'd also recommend listening to Stefanie Stahl's podcasts.

Arrivederla · 28/11/2022 14:11

KettrickenSmiled · 28/11/2022 12:14

I was struggling to get a mortgage large enough to keep my house & he very kindly offered to come on to the mortgage to help me out.
Hold on OP.
You seem to think he was doing you a favour.
How about – you also did HIM a favour – by sharing a mortgage with him to help him out?
He wrote a very generous legal agreement protecting my equity in the property.
What do you mean – “he wrote”? Please tell me you had your own legal representation, separate from his?
& why do you think it was generous to have your interest in the property protected? That should be a given!

When we met I was attracted to his intellect, his ambition and his worldview. I found him attractive too if course.
And now he doesn’t share any of his intellect, ambition & worldview with you.
It’s ok to find that disappointing.

He still works in a high powered role but now100% from home. He never leaves the house. Has no friends. Drinks a lot every night. His only social engagements are work drinks- and it’s rare he’ll do that. He never, ever brushes his teeth and he really smells at night and in the morning in particular. He has generally low standards of hygiene, dirty food-stained clothes. He smokes SO much it’s unreal. He doesn’t clean. He does however cook a lot - but he always cooks massive meals that are really unhealthy and then leaves everything dirty so I have to clean it. I do all other housework too - unless I’m annoyed then he’ll do some.
See my point about you imagining he’s been generous, above, OP?
he has an affordable mortgage because you agreed to share with him.
Now he has a built in, free housekeeper too.
He gets worryingly pissed every night, is unhygienic & unhealthy - & you are treated as if you barely exist, except to service the house.
he is a very kind and generous person (as helping me with getting a mortgage demonstrates)
What’s kind about never engaging with you? About being filthy, about expecting you to do ALL the domestic drudgery?
And let me say this again OP – YOU were generous to help HIM get this mortgage. & please don’t knee-jerk defend him with any stuff about how he could have afforded it on his own because of his high-powered job. Even if he could – he still chose not to, until you came along. Maybe he only wanted to buy if he had a co-mortgagee. Or a housekeeper.
But when he’s not working he’s a big like a shell, scrolling Facebook or playing Call of Duty.
it’s like he’ll do anything for me - but if it relates to himself he won’t consider changing.
Do anything for you except stop gaming, drinking, gaming, smoking, cooking junk food, being stinky, making a huge mess in the kitchen for you to deal with, housework, talking with you of an evening …

I think I’m not sure if I am being shallow or not
Please stop blaming yourself like this. It’s really NOT shallow to want partnership. Basic adulting. Half shares on chores. Talking to each other. None of this is a big ask – it’s necessary & normal.

he never, ever brushes. And I’ve told him a number of times how much it bothers me but he doesn’t seem to want to… there is intimacy - but yes it does put me off.
You allude to a difficult childhood where this became a contentious issue. So maybe this is more than laziness – but if it is – it is JIS issue to fix, not YOU issue to tolerate. He needs to see a GP, get a clinical referral, get some help with how to start managing basic self-care.

And you are NOT obliged to tolerate intimacy with him when his hygiene remains revolting. You do not owe him that - ok?

yeah no internal life. Just seems really content with sitting in one room scrolling whatever screen. And he can have really interesting povs if asked but recently I’ve noticed unless I start a convo he will just sit there. Like, for a week. It’s so weird. But maybe it’s not odd and he’s fine.
It’s odd.
It’s not fine.
You are reasonable to expect interaction ith your partner. He is treating you like a piece of the furniture. It’s normal & healthy to want more.

like what is it about the fact that every day he rolls out of bed, smokes a fag, has a 30 minute poo and then spends all day on the sofa that is actually a problem? I can still go out, I can still do stuff, I still have a morning routine. So why is it actually a problem for me that he does that??
maybe I am just very controlling about how I want the people around me to be?!
IT IS NOT CONTROLLING TO EXPECT YOUR ROMANTIC PARTNER TO BE ENGAGED WITH LIFE, WITH YOU, WITH MAKING YOUR RELATIONSHIP & HOUSEHOLD WORK FOR YOU.
and I did have a rough childhood - not physically abusive - but we weren’t really prioritised and so it is hard for me to put myself first - see the wood for the trees, or really know what I feel sometimes.

on the financials. I have a good job & if I had to move out of this home & downsize I could. Right after my divorce I just didn’t feel able….
Do you feel able now OP?
Because I think some focus on just you & your DC for a year or 2 would do you so much good.
You are accepting so much poor behaviour – for whatever reasons, if his MH/neurodiversity is causing this much of a problem (it is! It’s ok to recognise that!), or if he is just plain lazy – the REASONS are not yours to deal with. The EFFECT is yours to deal with. You & your DC don’t need to be living with this disappointment & this terrible role-modelling.

Instead of dealing with that as a sad & uncomfortable fact – you are turning your discomfort against yourself with your constant refrain of “maybe it’s not him, it’s me, maybe I should be gratefiul, expect less, how can I convince myself to tolerate more of this non-partnership?”
It’s OK to expect more. It’s ok to remove you & your DC from life with an alcoholic who avoids communication & can barely cope with his own self-care, let alone maintaining a healthy relationship.

But he could consume 4-8 cans of lager a night through the evening & smoking too… I’m definitely definitely conscious of the kids seeing this and it’s a big part of my decision making. But then also, as I say, he’s good at understanding people & talking with the boys. He also makes stuff out of wood, plays guitar and is in other ways a good role model - practical. It’s when they’re at school that he just sits there vacantly….
He has to deal with his problems. It is not your job or responsibility to fix him.
You need to prioritise your DC & yourself.

i feel quite worried. A lot of my childhood was moving from one place to another and so I wonder if I have a tendency to just disrupt things - throw everything up in the air / break stuff …. I’m not sure if I’m capable of loving a partner in the long term (I have no problem loving my family / my kids)…. But I don’t know if I’m capable of a long term relationship - I’m not sure why.
You don’t need to consider your capability for a LTR right now.
All you need to consider is getting you & your DC out from this dysfunctional situation.

I want to make brilliant decisions- that are right for my kids.
Choose yourself & them.
What would the logistics of leaving look like – financial., legal, practical steps toward accommodation just for you & them?

I was thinking of getting some therapy to see if that might help.
Please, please do.
With a therapist well versed in dysfunctional family dynamics.
This is certainly NOT to suggest there is anything wrong with you.
If anything you are too thoughtful, too kind, too self-effacing.

I hope you find a brilliant therapist who can hold you hand as you rake over your family background, assess what eroded your boundaries & self-esteem, & who challenges your minimising attitude to your own needs & preferences. Flowers

This is a really good post OP - please read it through again if you have a moment.

I know how difficult it is to see a relationship clearly when you are in the middle of it. I was in a pretty awful relationship for 30 years, finally leaving at the age of 58. I managed to get a new and better job, moved to a different part of the country, made new friendships and started a new relationship. Honestly, it was like stepping out from under a dark cloud, and just think how much more you could achieve at your age!

You sound like a kind, caring and thoughtful person OP - you honestly deserve so much more than this sad and disappointing relationship. 💐

(Also - his drinking sounds really worrying and will probably get worse. I would leave him for that alone, unless you want to become his nurse in the not too distant future).

yellowlabel · 28/11/2022 14:23

OP, you've worded it very well here so if you don't have the right words, you could write a letter and then ask him to sit down while you read it to him.

If you know that underneath it all he's a good man and you want to fix things, then your next option is to talk frankly (or read a frank letter!) and give him some action points.

It is NOT unreasonable to expect him to maintain basic personal hygiene or clean up his mess in the kitchen. After all, if you were wearing dirty clothes, smelling and leaving all your mess for him to clean up, he'd probably be a bit narked too! These are reasonable and fair things to ask when you're living with someone.

I agree with the PP though. He could be depressed and this might be related to the heavy drinking (a known anti-depressant).

Ask if he's willing to agree to a short term action plan, things that can be fixed quickly.

  1. Has a wash/shower and wears clean clothes every day
  2. See a doctor for health check up/possible depression

And then take it from there. If he truly wants to be in this, you'll know by his reaction/response.

Arrivederla · 28/11/2022 14:39

Might be related to the heavy drinking (a known anti-depressant).

Alcohol is a depressant!! He is literally destroying his physical and mental health in front of you and your dc.

TheCunningLinguist · 29/11/2022 01:40

Thankyou so much everyone for these responses. I will find a therapist as a first step. I think I’ll talk to him too & say unless there’s real change by x date I will need to leave to protect my boys. It is horrendous role modelling if nothing else.

OP posts:
QS90 · 29/11/2022 07:40

Sounds like a sensible plans, good luck x

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