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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Work relationship issue, please help!

20 replies

morethanspice · 23/11/2022 21:36

I work in a small business as part of a team of four including the owner. Much of the time it’s just myself and a girl of around 20. I’m mid fifties. I’m finding working with her to be more and more difficult as she is a “smart Alec” who always finds fault with everything I do. Today I really struggled not to snap at her but she is pushing me to the limit. She and I are ranked the same but she has more relevant experience but I have more responsibilities as I drive as part of the job and she doesn’t. I just don’t know how to deal with her as she is so quick thinking and “on it” but changes the goal posts so I feel constantly on edge. If she’s in a good mood our day is fine but I’m constantly on top toe, like I was in my marriage.

OP posts:
KettrickenSmiled · 23/11/2022 22:08

Today I really struggled not to snap at her
What's the worst that can happen, if you snap at her?

If she’s in a good mood our day is fine but I’m constantly on top toe, like I was in my marriage.
She probably senses some of this. Your hesitance in calling her out, small body language cues that denote a person who has been bullied previously. For some people, that;s like blood to a shark.

So you need to stop hoping she'll be in a good mood, & start putting her back in her place. Which is a professional colleague who needs to start acting like one.

This will help - give yourself a present & order a copy - www.amazon.co.uk/Woman-Your-Own-Right-Assertiveness/dp/0704334208

You need a couple of go-to phrases for when she next Smart-Alecs or finds fault.
"Monica - I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt as you lack experience - but your attitude hasn't improved so I'm going to have to ask you to observe basic professional courtesies in the workplace. I need you to stop doing XYZ & stop saying things like ABC. I hope I don't have to raise this with you again. Now - are those invoices ready, or do you need to blah blah subject change"

"Monica, it's rude to speak to colleagues in that manner. You need to stop doing it before it gets you in bother." blah blah subject change

"Monica, if you keep giving out with that attitude, people are going to resent you & start complaining to seniors. I'll let it go this time, but don't speak to me - or any colleagues or clients - like that again, ok?" blah blah subject change

The subject change is important because it draws a firm line under the conversation & indicates that you are not interested in debate - just in getting heard. So if she pushes back - "Your attitude is increasingly unprofessional. I am doing you the favour of allowing you to improve it, instead of raising a complaint. You might prefer to take that favour than to keep back-chatting."

Remember - you have 30 years on this young woman. Your experience counts, your right to professional courtesy counts, & your maturity can act FOR you when you cultivate an attitude of - effectively - (never say this bit out loud!) "you silly little bitch, you are shooting yourself in the foot here & have picked the wrong woman to bully."

Also - of you do need to speak to her along the lines of the above suggestions - tell your boss you have done so. An immediate email would be your best bet, to cover your arse (& ensure you get in first).
Keep it as simple as possible, but something like -
"Hi Boss
No action required but want to give you a quick heads up.
I've taken the opportunity to correct Monica about her attitude today. This has been a small but ongoing issue for a while, which I put down to relative inexperience, hoping she would settle in & pick up on our usual culture.
However, her rude remarks have ramped up to the point where I'm concerned that she might have the same attitude toward others, including clients & suppliers, so I have asked her to stop making them, & advised her that she needs to address everyone with professional courtesy.
Am hoping that will give us the required result & you won't need to engage. Happy to give you a quick verbal overview when convenient so you are in the loop - but with luck we will see improvements & you need not get involved.
Kind regards
Spice."

Note the pronouns - where I use "WE".
This sets you apart as the co-senior (rank not important - experience & age is) who is working WITH her boss to prevent problems.
Rather than the complaining old harridan this young woman will paint you as if you let her get in to your boss first ... Shock

It's a lot to think about if you are a naturally diffident person. But your only other choice is to tolerate it, & that will grind your self-esteem so low that she'll end up running rings round you. So take your time - maybe read the Dickenson book, & have some role-play practice with a trusty friend before tackling this rude young woman?

morethanspice · 23/11/2022 22:27

KettrickenSmiled what an amazing response! She is definitely picking up on my cues and using my “imposter syndrome “ to undermine me. I’ll order that! Thanks!!

OP posts:
KettrickenSmiled · 23/11/2022 22:54

ha ha ha Spice.

Like many 20 year olds, she needs a few metaphorical kicks up the arse before understanding how to conduct herself properly in the workplace. View yourself as the kindly senior who is helping her achieve that - NOT as the imposter.

Although I understand the imposter syndrome all too well ... Wink Enjoy the remarkable book!

Thingsdogetbetter · 24/11/2022 09:11

When people who move goal posts, always ask for confirmation of any verbal points by email. If they won't, then you email them saying you're just confirming X and Y from previous conversation. And if you wanna show you're onto her goal post moving cc in the boss.

morethanspice · 24/11/2022 11:36

It’s not an office job, it’s a pet service based outdoors and she and I are the only full time people. The manager is a super person and has been very supportive but because she never witnesses it as she’s part time she can only take my word. I feel I irritate the girl and she gets impatient if I don’t follow her train of thought but really if she wasn’t there I’d manage the job perfectly well. I think it’s maybe time to tell her I won’t accept her behaviour which I’ve been reluctant to do as then it can’t be unsaid and the atmosphere might deteriorate more. I am naturally diffident and hate confrontation but tolerating this, as has been referred to above, is having a poor effect on my self respect x

OP posts:
Fenella123 · 24/11/2022 11:45

Something which helped me with someone who I would get wound up by is realising I didn't have to respond! I could be silent or go "hmmm" or "uh huh" and then ignore or ponder at my leisure.
Simple but often very effective.

Oblomov22 · 24/11/2022 11:58
  1. talk to your boss. 2"always finds fault with everything I do. " what is she commenting on? Are you making mistakes or is this really none of her business?

Why don't you say something to her say to her?

Mn posters will help you phrase it better , but basically : "Can I have a quiet word? I've noticed that you keep commenting on the things I do, but I find this very negative and I would appreciate it if you didn't comment."

Oblomov22 · 24/11/2022 12:01

@KettrickenSmiled

Has worded it perfectly. And the email is superb.

Watchkeys · 24/11/2022 13:37

Is it a good idea though, to effectively take a disciplinary position over an equally ranked employee? I'm not sure I'd appreciate that email from one of my team, telling me they'd had a word with a colleague and 'hopefully I wouldn't need to step in'. I'd be wanting to have a chat with them both and make my own decisions.

morethanspice · 25/11/2022 06:35

That’s the issue Watchkeys. And why I’ve been tolerant of her. But the day is make or break depending on her reactions and it’s hard to enjoy what should be a really lovely job. I’m just annoyed with myself for being such a wet blanket x

OP posts:
Soproudoflionesses · 25/11/2022 06:42

I used towork with a know it all who was much yoinger and less inexperienced than me. He tried telling me something l had done wrong (in his eyes anyway) and l quickly shot him down and told him never ever speak to me like that again. Mind you l was pregnant, very hormonal and fearless. But in fairness he never did! Just put her back in her place op you will be so glad you did x

sammylady37 · 25/11/2022 06:44

Watchkeys · 24/11/2022 13:37

Is it a good idea though, to effectively take a disciplinary position over an equally ranked employee? I'm not sure I'd appreciate that email from one of my team, telling me they'd had a word with a colleague and 'hopefully I wouldn't need to step in'. I'd be wanting to have a chat with them both and make my own decisions.

i agree, I don’t think the suggested email is ‘superb’ at all, coming from an employee to a boss about an equally-ranked employee. It’s making an attempt to align herself with the boss, by using ‘we’ etc and by telling the boss ‘no action required’, as if that’s the employees decision to make. It’s very much presenting the writer as trying to control the narrative and present themselves as so superior and competent and higher-level, and as if they have a right to discipline an equally-ranked colleague. I would not be taking that if I received it and would investigate further before drawing my own conclusion about what, if anything, was necessary.

ManAboutTown · 25/11/2022 06:47

Slap her down - she sounds like a bit of a bully and needs bringing into line.

Watchkeys · 25/11/2022 09:21

Why don't you just tell the boss what you've told us?

morethanspice · 25/11/2022 13:50

I have told the boss. And the manager. But it’s her word against mine…..

OP posts:
pjani · 25/11/2022 13:56

I hope that assertiveness book helps but I think all the talk about slapping her down is a red herring. I think if you felt more confident about your own abilities you’d just laugh to yourself about her. She’s a kid! We were all idiots of one kind or another at that age.

I think ignoring her and listening to your inner voice about what is right, and getting in with the job. And by ignore, I mean be as polite as possible but without taking her too seriously or letting her affect you. You’re great at your job for X, Y and Z reasons. Who cares what that person over there is doing? Focus on other things.

morethanspice · 26/11/2022 09:41

Pjani I think you have nailed the issue. I lack confidence (in general) and joined this team as a complete newbie to the sector. This girl definitely has more experience but she’s ranked the same as me. I’m happy to give her her place as it were but she’s definitely adopting a leader role when it’s just me and her. And Im so weak and pathetic I just let her walk all over me. I’m going to have to go back on antidepressants just to cope with her which is sad because Ive fought so hard to get off them. I’m ashamed of my own weaknesses.

OP posts:
KettrickenSmiled · 26/11/2022 10:30

sammylady37 · 25/11/2022 06:44

i agree, I don’t think the suggested email is ‘superb’ at all, coming from an employee to a boss about an equally-ranked employee. It’s making an attempt to align herself with the boss, by using ‘we’ etc and by telling the boss ‘no action required’, as if that’s the employees decision to make. It’s very much presenting the writer as trying to control the narrative and present themselves as so superior and competent and higher-level, and as if they have a right to discipline an equally-ranked colleague. I would not be taking that if I received it and would investigate further before drawing my own conclusion about what, if anything, was necessary.

All this talk of 'rank' & 'superior' is misplaced, because this is a 4-person company. There won't be a big formal hierarchy where notions like 'discipline' are thrown around - & colleagues are allowed to correct & comment on others mis-speaking & treating them poorly. They're also allowed to report that back to their boss, & get their version of facts in before the mis-speaker runs whinging to that boss. Which she possoibly would, in shock at finally having her rudeness pointed out.

sammylady37 · 26/11/2022 13:54

KettrickenSmiled · 26/11/2022 10:30

All this talk of 'rank' & 'superior' is misplaced, because this is a 4-person company. There won't be a big formal hierarchy where notions like 'discipline' are thrown around - & colleagues are allowed to correct & comment on others mis-speaking & treating them poorly. They're also allowed to report that back to their boss, & get their version of facts in before the mis-speaker runs whinging to that boss. Which she possoibly would, in shock at finally having her rudeness pointed out.

I disagree. The email you proposed is very much written in the tone of a line manager informing their line manager about action they’ve taken, and you even suggest using language and tone that sets the op apart as ‘co-senior’… but she’s very much not co-senior and does not have a disciplinary role with her colleague. She would be over-stepping the mark to email her boss as you suggested and a good manager would nip that in the bud fairly sharply.

pjani · 26/11/2022 18:13

Taking ADs if you benefit from them is a sign of strength not weakness! You’re doing your absolute best. We’ve all been thrown by things we wish we weren’t bothered by at times. Just know that I bet you’re doing a great job and keep working on assertiveness, it’s a lifelong journey for all of us.

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