Dealing with rude family at Christmas

[Mistlefrog]

I have a family member who I really dislike. I find them to be unkind, rude and attention seeking. They insult people and constantly judge, criticise and generally just aren’t pleasant to be around.
I love and care for everyone else in the family. the rest of the family dislike this person too, but they still love them and don’t want to exclude them, though they do occasionally get upset or angry when they feel the person has gone too far. We have all individually tried to politely speak to this person about the issues, but to no avail and everyone else has given up and accepted it now.

I begin dreading occasions in advance because I know I’ll have to spend time with this person, and I’m on edge waiting to be criticised.
I am ND and the whole lack of ‘justice’ and fairness really seems to get to me. I can’t believe someone can insult me and people I love and we all just let them ‘get away with it’
but I can’t be in an argument every 10 minutes, I don’t want to miss out on family occasions and it’s only me who gets so upset with it.

So how do I let this just wash over me, ignore it, and still enjoy my day. I can’t be selfish with a sour face and kill the mood for everyone else as that’s almost as bad as that person. And it’s a waste of my time sulking through happy occasions, since it doesn’t change things.

@balalake no I don’t think so, but also I don’t want to put other people in that position. they feel the right thing to do is not to exclude that person and I understand their decision even if it’s not my preference.
I don’t think it’s fair I force them to pick sides when I’m the only one who can’t just get over it and ignore this person like everyone else.

@jetadore thank you I think this is what I was looking for
I need to keep reminding myself they aren’t winning or getting away with it, no one likes them.

thank you @Opaljewel im normally a very fair person, forgiving and understanding of why someone may act a certain way, but this persons behaviour just makes no sense to me, and I get unreasonably wound up and give it too much headspace. I’m always questioning what is wrong with me and why I can’t just let it go like everyone else can, and then I get more angry because I’m angry at myself for letting them get to me. but this is a really useful resource that may help me let go of some of that.

Thanks I hope you find it useful. Finding compassion for such people has changed the way I feel about attending these events. Similar to what you say, I used to waste a lot of mental energy on these thoughtless individuals and dreading these encounters. I must stress it will be very difficult at first to feel compassion towards someone who has caused you upset and whose bad behaviour you’ve had to accommodate for years but, if make a conscious choice to prepare yourself mentally beforehand, it will be worth it. Practicing mindfulness is also really good for this type of thing (dealing with difficulty). As a ND person myself (ADD, social anxiety) it has helped a lot.

Thank you @jetadore any other tips for how you got started?
as you say my compassion is completely non existent at the moment. I might be able to muster up a disdain and pity if I try really hard… but I’ve got a month to work on it.

im also trying to see it more as an act of love to my family, I’m making their holidays nicer by not causing this tension. we all have to deal with this person, them dealing with me sulking or being angry as well is only making it worse for everyone. But I’m also a bit annoyed at them and begrudging us all being in this situation because of their choices to keep this person in our lives, even though I understand why they’ve made that decision, so I think previously I’ve not cared if my sulking impacts them too but I have to get over it. It’s my choice to keep going to family occasions after all.

so glad I posted too just to find out it really is related to being ND as well.

Don't engage with the meanness- treat it as a game. Count how many insults they make over the day. Start them talking about themselves and time it - can they beat their previous score. Keep a running 'top three insults' over the day so you'll be able to tell a friend later who'll laugh. What random topic can you introduce that they can't turn back to talking about themselves. You'll be so busy concentrating you won't have time to take anything personally. Definitely stop trying to make an effort!

OP

can you physically dodge them!?
and I don’t mean dodge / avoid them, I’m sure you do that. But when they’ve “got” you and you feel stuck, just rudely extract yourself. I’m going to the loo or whatever. Don’t wait for the opportunity to do it in a less rude way. Just do it.
yes they’ll complain about you but so what. I think it’s better than either alternative - current status quo or giving an ultimatum to your other relative.

Google 'boundary phrases'. They are firm but inoffensive ways of shutting someone down and moving things along when they are rude. They won't all ve appropriate but you might find a couple that you feel comfortable with.

Just ignore the barbed comments and bad behaviour. What I do at Christmas is busy myself in a different room to rude relative. If they come in I need the loo/must help in the kitchen/take the rubbish out etc. When they say something rude I just ignore and reply 'oh Aunty Janice sent some lovely gold bootees for DS, you'll love them, I'll get them to show you' of course he won't but it catches him out and I bore him with innane details of the wool she used.

Gosh @Mistlefrog

Every. Single. Word. of your post applies to me.

Family member is : An Aggressive, ignorant, miserable, patronising and critical nasty piece of work who nobody calls out, ever. Eg Once picked a fight with me at the Christmas table over audiobooks. I listen to audiobooks a lot, and they are often read by the author or famous actors. Apparently I am wrong about this and they are all read in a monotone by robots. Because they said so. Though they've never listened to one, once.

This person, my sister, will never change and still after all these years I am without decent advice for others as to how to cope. She weathers every storm like a cockroach. I do know that down the line I can escape her, but not til we've lost the older generation which I can't wish on myself.

Being told she is emigrating somewhere far away where return flights are expensive is the best Christmas present I could ever receive, to be honest.

I wish I could give you better advice, but I'm posting to tell you if you feel alone in the trenches, you definitely aren't.

Thank you @MySisterTotallyIs and everyone else with similar family members, it’s easy to get caught up in wishing you had the sort of family where this didn’t happen and you’re the only one who’s special moments are ruined by this, but actually it’s just quite common. We are ttc at the moment, I’m desperate for a baby and then when I think about it for a few minutes I panic because I remember I’ll have to deal with this person insulting me whilst demanding to see my newborn. It’s just ridiculous, it’s not even happened, it will happen (god willing we are lucky enough to have a baby) but it’s not happening yet so it makes no sense for me to be so panicked about it. But I’m thinking I can use this time whilst ttc to learn to manage them better. I don’t want these moments clouded.

thank you for the boundary phrases and extraction ideas.
I think I am hopeful every time that maybe we can just be ok together. Maybe if I steer the conversation to mundane enough things, if I’m polite and chatty enough, if I can just change the topic when they’re rude about someone else if if If…
and it works sometimes for a bit and then when the barbed comment happens it catches me even more by surprise and I’m even more hurt and angry. I just need to assume it’s going to happen and be ready to go to the loo so much they wonder if I have a uti…

So for me, personally, the first step was to find distance. If you saw a homeless person, you would probably feel compassion towards them, however if you spent time with that homeless person you might well find they had a difficult personality or mental health issues that resulted in rude or difficult behaviour towards you. Now in a family you might have the sense that there’s some greater connection there because, y’know, family. Forget that. Chances are they are related to you by marriage, so basically by chance, this makes it easier to think of them as just some random person. Even a blood relative, you need to view them as just a person, try to put the relationship/‘family loyalty’ aside. With a sibling/parent it’s much more difficult, of course.
Then, more practically work on how to react (or not react) if/when you have to speak to this person. For example, one of my relatives is constantly prying into my finances, DHs job/salary, car, kids’ school progress, holidays, etc., and then boasting about hers. I used to lie or even play down our achievements just to placate her, either way it made me uncomfortable and bothered me. But actually she’s doing it because she’s fundamentally insecure about her self worth and thinks proving she’s “better off” than me will make her happy. So really in this situation I’m just a proxy to make her feel better. Even though I was annoyed, her primary aim isn’t actually to make me feel bad, it’s to “prove” to herself that she’s worth something. I’ve stopped taking it personally, she’s equating material/financial status with happiness and needs to constantly reassure herself she’s right, and even if she is happy (doubt it), either way it’s a value system I reject, so no skin off my nose. Her poor kids are fucked up by being constantly compared to others and the pressure of needing to be better than them.

Another example is habitual negativity and criticism in my family. I remember being younger and being constantly criticised for saying or doing or not doing this or that or the other, so much so I didn’t know what to do (hello social anxiety!). It was a real eye opener to see the same family members saying the same things to my DD. It’s helped me realise it’s not personal, they just need an outlet for their own insecurities and will target whoever they can. Isn’t it sad that they waste the little quality time they get with the children like this?
So depending on you, you can either be a bit confrontational and shut down conversations/let them know you’re not a good target for their self validating behaviour, or let them carry on but with empathy and distanced awareness of what they’re doing and not let it affect you emotionally.
As I said mindfulness really helps, it allows you be present in a situation without succumbing to your emotions. There are short meditations and grounding techniques that help with this. Now I would also add this only applies to “low-level” rudeness and general bullshit, physically or verbally abusive people need to go low/no contact.

I find it useful when someone is blatantly rude like this to simply wait til they have finished and then say 'Goodness,' in a very calm voice before turning to somebody else and changing the conversation.

It's a sort of signal that I've heard and have no intention of contributing or continuing the conversation. Would that help?

Why can't this unpleasant individual be excluded from the gathering? Perhaps they need to understand that their behaviour has consequences? It's a shame that your celebrations are being spoilt. It sounds like a horrible situation.

ABlindAssassin · Yesterday 19:16

Google 'boundary phrases'. They are firm but inoffensive ways of shutting someone down and moving things along when they are rude.

Could you quote a selection here please?

They won’t see it. We’ve spoken to them, the mental gymnastics they do to explain why it’s everyone else’s fault are fascinating. Regardless everyone else doesn’t want to exclude them.

i don’t want to give too much away but this person pretends to be very vulnerable when it suits them, desperately needing help any time any one pulls away, meaning immense guilt from everyone at the prospect of leaving such a vulnerable person alone over Christmas.
The consensus is we don’t like them, but we can’t in good conscience leave them alone, when nothing they’ve done is that bad.
Typically the things they do are minimised by everyone, and made into isolated incidents. For example if someone gets upset at a comment made, only that comment is discussed, and explained away by it being accidental and clumsy, or it was said out of concern or if that doesn’t work, simply that everyone is bullying the person who said it, meaning they can’t say anything without someone overreacting.
The person who reacted to being insulted feels guilty for over reacting to a single comment and it’s forgotten that they’ve already heard 5 other insults in the last couple of hours before they reacted to this one. The whole family must then grovel (to the rude family member) and they will sulk for hours or days depending on the situation.

it took me many years of questioning myself, wondering if I was unreasonable, wondering if I was just misunderstanding this person, or too sensitive or easily offended or too insecure because why else would all these accidental comments upset me so much. I was constantly trying to see it from their perspective to understand why they may say these things, and doing lots of work on myself to see why I was getting upset when according to everyone else nothing that bad was even happening, I kept trying to reason with them, dodge the insults, communicate and explain how I felt and ask them about their feelings and so on before I realised that actually they were just not a very nice person. I feel like most of the rest of the family are earlier on in the process and still think they must be bad people to think poorly of this vulnerable person.

What you have to do is to mentally forgive them, in advance, for any hurtful behaviour they inflict on you. Try to have empathy for them. People like this are damaged, their behaviour comes from a place of pain and dysfunction.

Yes, @jetadore , that’s the best approach unless you’re prepared to go NC with them. My father can be like this and has alienated many people. I genuinely feel compassion for him, because I know he’s an angry and frightened elderly man, with many health problems.

I sometimes call him out on his behavior, but I won’t at Christmas and other special occasions. We make a big fuss of him and try to make him feel happier, he’s so different when he stops picking at people.

i think I spent a long time being insulted by them whilst trying to see their side and wonder if I had done anything to make them feel bullied, feeling guilty and anxious about the whole thing, that I almost don’t want to go back there to the compassion and guilt and it’s easier to just hate them.
obviously that isn’t working but I think talking about it here has made me realise why I’m so reluctant to forgive them, I was so miserable when I didn’t blame them

@Mistlefrog I understand it might seem easier to hate them, but it’s really their own unhappiness that makes them behave this way. People who are content with themselves don’t insult and belittle others-it must be horrible to be so miserable that they feel the need to do this. That’s why I feel sorry for my father, IYSWIM. If I could wave a magic wand and make him happy with himself, I would.

I’d try to let any insults wash over you and get through it as best you can.

I tried for years with my Mother.

Eventually I just cut her out of my life.

She is a mean, goady, joyless, self-obsessed nightmare. She was a truly useless Mother and I am only sorry I didn't cut her off years ago.

@Cameleongirl and @jetadore i know you’re both right, I just haven’t quite figured out how to let go of that anger yet

Develop a reputation for being a delicate flower that rises late and goes to bed early.

I remember the petty bickering of my df siblings with fondness now. They were all forty going on 14 years old:) and dragged up events from 20 years ago for yet another pounding at Christmas.

Us kids used to remind them helpfully they hadn't argued about a chocolate fairy cake or something from 30 years ago ' come on auntie, what happened about the cake missing again? '

They were all good sports though.

We have a family member who can be very difficult to be around. Together with adult DCs we have an unspoken game of 'Uncle xx Bingo' when we're with them. Just a few stock phrases we expect them to use, or subjects he always moves the conversation on to. We don't play the game in front of him, of course. Just in our own heads. Then we might compare scores on the way home in the car. It serves a serious purpose - it reminds us individually that we aren't alone, and that this person is difficult with everyone. And if they are getting really frustrating, it's something else to focus on, and a reminder that we're just playing along temporarily, and we will soon be on our way home and laughing about it.