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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Just broke up. Feel so upset.

18 replies

Teaandtoast35 · 18/11/2022 13:07

There was EA really, but I did love him and thought we would be together forever. I have a previous thread saying why we broke up. Why can’t I properly see and feel all the bad things he did to me? I just see a human being who loves me as much as he can (I think from reading that he might be what people call a narcissist, so I don’t think he can love me as much as himself, but he has always done sweet things in amongst the difficulties and I’m certain not all of them were to get on my good side) in pain.

please just help. This is so painful.

OP posts:
Isittrueornot · 18/11/2022 13:11

Pain is a human emotion, it can’t be denied, so just wade through it. Time is what you need, in time you will get through this, time does heal

Teaandtoast35 · 18/11/2022 13:14

Thank you. I feel so blind when it comes to him. And when he’s nice he’s so sweet and when he’s not nice he is so cold.

OP posts:
SpicedPumpkin · 18/11/2022 14:25

OP I'm so sorry to hear you're in pain. Having read your other threads though (and seeing so much comparison in my relationship unfortunately) I'm glad that you're detaching yourself from him. It will be utterly horrible for the short term but it's a fresh start for a better future.

Please read back on your previous posts when you find yourself missing him and wondering if it's the right thing.

Sending you strength 💐 you WILL get through this and you WILL be ok.

scaredysquiggle · 18/11/2022 14:33

I split with my partner on Monday and the pain is unbearable. No advice but just to let you know I understand

TinselTitz22 · 18/11/2022 14:37

Don't let the nice times into your head. You need to see it for what it was so you can move on. So sorry you are hurting.

Get a duvet, a nice film, ice cream and let yourself cry into it. Let yourself ugly cry.

If you have RL friends and a loving family let them support you.

It will take time but you will get there and you'll be stronger and happier for it.

Snorken · 18/11/2022 14:41

Hi, although you are in so much pain right now you have done the absolute right thing and I am actually happy for you that you managed to do this as it gives me hope that I will do the same soon too.

Lundy Buncroft do a book that accompanies the Why Does He Do That but it's one with daily inspirational chunks to be read one a day as part of the healing process. Lundy also recommends getting a journal to go with this book so you can make notes every day and remind yourself why you are doing this, I have skimmed through this book and although not all applies to my husband, there are a few good nuggets in there and I will be using it when it is my turn.

Dr Ramani youtube videos always make me feel like I'm not alone and she feels almost like she is there with you.

Self care, if you can manage it and if you have any supportive friends or family nearby, reach out.

You can do this, sending lots of strength, cake, wine and gin!

GrabMyParaplu · 18/11/2022 15:55

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Teaandtoast35 · 18/11/2022 16:06

Oh, MN. You guys are so kind, thank you so much and I’m sorry so many of us are in the same boat. @SpicedPumpkin It seems bonkers but understand, I read so many MN threads that were close comparisons. What were the things that were similar? Only if you want to talk about it.

I am definitely ugly crying! I do know it’s the right thing, and he’s been so respectful and said he understands. We have always talked about his issues and so it wasn’t out of the blue.

I am struck by three things: 1. How I didn’t see it at all (I felt upset a lot but didn’t know quite why) until I read Lundy’s book and learned the words for it. 2. This behaviour is so widespread (I guess I’ve been being naive about how much patriarchy was in my life!) 3. How it’s not easy to leave. Because all the bad stuff is true and for that reason I know I HAVE to, but I also WANT to just cuddle up to him and be sweet with each other and dream like we do of a lovely life together. I’m so sad we lost all our kids. I know we still probably would have broken up and I couldn’t bear not living with them and I think he probably would have been a much better single dad than a dad in a couple (many thoughts) but I’m just so sad they’re not here and that our love and all our trying for them came to what it did.

Hugs and cake and gin and a hot cup of tea for all of you. I’m very lucky to have supportive family. I hope you do too.

OP posts:
SpicedPumpkin · 18/11/2022 17:27

Teaandtoast35 · 18/11/2022 16:06

Oh, MN. You guys are so kind, thank you so much and I’m sorry so many of us are in the same boat. @SpicedPumpkin It seems bonkers but understand, I read so many MN threads that were close comparisons. What were the things that were similar? Only if you want to talk about it.

I am definitely ugly crying! I do know it’s the right thing, and he’s been so respectful and said he understands. We have always talked about his issues and so it wasn’t out of the blue.

I am struck by three things: 1. How I didn’t see it at all (I felt upset a lot but didn’t know quite why) until I read Lundy’s book and learned the words for it. 2. This behaviour is so widespread (I guess I’ve been being naive about how much patriarchy was in my life!) 3. How it’s not easy to leave. Because all the bad stuff is true and for that reason I know I HAVE to, but I also WANT to just cuddle up to him and be sweet with each other and dream like we do of a lovely life together. I’m so sad we lost all our kids. I know we still probably would have broken up and I couldn’t bear not living with them and I think he probably would have been a much better single dad than a dad in a couple (many thoughts) but I’m just so sad they’re not here and that our love and all our trying for them came to what it did.

Hugs and cake and gin and a hot cup of tea for all of you. I’m very lucky to have supportive family. I hope you do too.

Number 3 just made me tear up because I could write the same thing. I know this relationship isn't good for me but I still care for him so much and I know the reasons behind his behaviour but we've been together nearly 12 years and there's been a lot of damage done which I've absorbed and ignored because of the potential of our relationship when things are good. I've a suspicion that he's neurodiverse and some of his controlling ways are because he can't deal with emotions very well so seeks control over things as a protective measure. Doesn't make it ok though that it results in me becoming a shell of myself and loosing my sense of identity as I morph into whatever makes him feel most comfortable.

I have a history of trauma which probably makes me more susceptible to being comfortable in a codependent relationship too which doesn't help. Still, the pain I feel at the thought of hurting him by leaving (he really does have the biggest heart and is so loving it would break his heart) means I cant bring myself to do it yet. He is also making great strides in improving how he deals with things since I almost left 3 months ago. Lots more to the situation but this isn't my thread to hijack! We just bought a house together too and have been struggling through infertility over the last year so I'm fully in the sunk costs fallacy and feel like I need to give it a bit longer yet. In the meantime the fight between should I stay/go churns around in my thoughts daily and I'm obsessing over posts by stronger women than me who have had the courage to listen to their head and split despite their heart screaming to stay!

Hugs, cake, gin and any hot beverage of choice coming your way too! You've got this, for the rest of us if not for yourself right now!! I'm so glad you've got supportive family and I hope the unpicking of your ties with one another aren't too complicated, though it will be painful.

Oh and Snorken I'm here in solidarity!

Teaandtoast35 · 18/11/2022 17:43

@SpicedPumpkin Have you read the Lundy Bancroft book I mentioned? We used to think my DP (well, now ex… oh god that’s so sad) was neurodiverse, but the book talks about how actually controlling men are very able to think about and express their own emotions — it’s their partners’ emotions they never think about! And so that’s one reason why traditional counselling doesn’t work for them. The book begins with every excuse women make for their partner — and I’ve made them all.

Im so sorry you have a history of trauma. I think being familiar with these patterns makes us feel they are not so bad. I grew up with a “shouty, grumpy” dad. Really it’s EA just the same. And so I think about difficult men - oh but I know they can be lovely as well as be like that because of my dad. And low and behold… my last relationship was like this too! I was more serious about this one, even though the last one was a LTR too. I had more fun and sex with the first guy but the second wanted the same things I wanted and felt like “home”. Possibly because he was from a similar (Irish working) class and shouty? Not the most exciting criteria to choose a mate by!

And infertility makes things so hard, I’m sorry. We started trying 3.5 years ago. 2 years infertility and then four losses. I don’t want to scare you but depending on your age have a think about this, because my years of trying have fucked my body even more and I now have to have an operation to remove something that is there because of an infection caused by another fertility op! It’s worth trying with the right person.

but I wouldn’t change things, oddly enough. We both loved hard and we both tried hard and we love our lost kids and we’re glad we have them, so you can’t say much more than that. I really hope we are able to stay on good terms so we can meet at their graveyard for their birthdays. My guy has a lovely heart too. Sometimes he creates this dark cloud, but when the sun comes out behind it, it’s lovely. Yes that’s trauma bonding but there is love there too. I think it’s so sad what patriarchy does to guys. Even watching Modern Family last night with mum I was struck by how old fashioned and abuse-posi it seems sometimes, with the “lovable grump” and sexist jokes.

thanks for writing back every one. It helps to distract myself by talking! The pain is pretty intense physically. I forgot how much it hurts to leave someone you love

OP posts:
Snorken · 19/11/2022 11:32

Typed up a long message earlier and then lost it!

The last two posts made me well up, there is so much that resonates and it's such a hard situation to be in. I'm so sorry for your losses teaandtoast and sorry about your past trauma spicedpumpkin.

I too thought my husband was neurodiverse, particularly as I am very possibly autistic myself and I always felt he wss different from NT people. Unfortunately I have come to realise he is not, he has got some ADHD type behaviours but more than anything he has got some narcissistic traits. There was a 'conversation' between a YouTube autistic advocate and H G Tudor, a diagnosed narcissistic who runs the Narc Site. They were discussing how autistic bluntness can on the surface be confused with narcissistic but that although the bluntness is in some ways similar, autistic people have deep empathy and narcissists don't.

SpicedPumpkin · 19/11/2022 17:14

How are you feeling today @Teaandtoast35? Thanks so much for that lovely reply 💗

I haven't read the book but I see it recommended a lot on here. I guess I won't know whether he is ND without an assessment but from lots of research and YouTube videos (Ted talks etc) he definitely exhibits a lot of characteristics of ADHD and he's always struggled with fitting in and in his words 'has never been able to just do what he's supposed to do to get by in life'. He struggles with authority and with following systems. It's hard to explain without giving examples but I don't want to be too outing. He can be very childlike too (emotionally and in mannerisms) which is a big contributing factor to why I'm unhappy. I've taken on the mother role for a very long time without really realising it and it's resulted in me finding it difficult to respect him and see him as an equal. We have always talked openly about these things though so he understands and he's been loads better over the last few months. I've given myself until next summer in my head to make a decision. I'm 35 and feel time slipping away in terms of having a baby, I'm undergoing fertility tests at the moment so it might not be on the cards for me anyway but I'm tormented over this aspect particularly. I know it would be wrong to continue this relationship just to get pregnant and I 100% would never do that as it's not fair on him or on the child but the fear of starting over at my age (especially with the horror stories on here of dating again!) definitely makes me want to do all I can in working on my current relationship. It's far from all bad and I know there is no way he'd ever physically hurt me or ever cheat on me and there are a lot of reasons why we work together but I have to wake up to the fact that there has been some emotional abuse (unintentional but still) that I need to try and heal from and it'll take time for him to prove to me that he understands what he does and has changed. We both love hard too which is why it's all the more painful I think. I totally understand where you're coming from there.

I'm so sorry to hear about your losses. It's such a lot to go through together and is something you will always share with one another. I hope you can visit their graves together on those special dates.

SpicedPumpkin · 19/11/2022 17:21

@Snorken thank you ❤️

Sorry to hear that it's transpired your DH has narc traits, that must be really hard to come to terms with. I fear I may need to explore this avenue a bit more and see how I feel when reading stuff. It's so hard because sometimes I can feel like I don't matter when he's seeking the control over decisions etc (never in a horrible way, just very expressive with his preference etc) but I wouldn't say he doesn't have empathy, although he does get more upset at the mistreatment of animals than people! I think part of me still doesn't want to look into that side of things as it forces you to confront some ugly truths doesn't it 😣 sometimes I wish I could turn back time and never fall in love with him. We've had some amazing times together and wonderful memories but now I'm at the stage in life where I'm desperate to settle down I fear I've chosen the wrong person 💔 but I still love him!!! I wish I had the answers for us both.

Pinkbonbon · 19/11/2022 17:40

What it comes down to is, you gave to love YOU most.

You cannot change him and he cannot love you as you deserve. So you have chosen you. And that is the right decision.

Pinkbonbon · 19/11/2022 17:41

*have to

Teaandtoast35 · 27/11/2022 09:11

@SpicedPumpkin Im sorry it’s been a little while - leaving itself took up a lot of energy and the last few days I’ve really slumped. I think the Adrenalin has left. I felt very “up” and first and now I feel utterly exhausted and quite low, but thinking about my lost babies mainly. He took it really well. I wonder if he feels on some level I had the strength to call time on something that didn’t work for both of us. But I also think it might be another cycle — behave well in this scenario, expect things because of it. Whatever it is, I’m best on my own.

So, Spiced, I wanted to say — I am 35 and someone who, with or without a partner, has fertility issues and of course I’ve mentioned multiple baby losses at all stages. Losing a baby is still parenting. You see which of you carries the grief, who does the work to memory make and gather, who visits the baby’s “spot”, who talks about them. You see who is not there. It’s very clear, as soon as you have a child, lost or not, that it’s a larger burden to take care of an adult and a child, rather than a child. And in reading that book - Why Does He Do That? I realised those precious babies I have held did not deserve to grow up around abuse and absorb the same attitudes I did at home. As a parent, you have to make hard choices about what is right for a child to live through and having said goodbye to very poorly children to save them from suffering, I wouldn’t want them or any others to be born just to be on the receiving end of the kind of behaviour my ex exhibited at times (remembering at times he was loving and sweet). You and I have been through trauma - so we know it’s important not to do trauma to others. And that’s not to mention the fact that children in homes with EA from the dad end up bonding with him more and having more disagreements with the mother.

My feeling is that - while egg quality does decline with age (and can be ameliorated with certain vitamins - read It Starts With The Egg) - a specific fertility problem is generally there with you for the long haul. It’s going to be hard for me to have kids with or without my EXDP - AND I know I don’t want to knowingly put my kids in the position of having an EA dad, so it wasn’t a factor in my decision. I am so intent on kids. I love mine so much. My lost little ones. I’m looking into forging ahead with IVF as a solo mum. But even with 4 years of infertility and loss behind me, at 35 I know I do still have time to meet a partner. It’s just not the choice I’m making because I’ve been trying since 31 and am so desperate to have kids and not interested in dating. So I would just encourage you to know that we are young ish, five years is a lovely time, any fertility issues will be treated by nhs, and a round of IUI by yourself isn’t that expensive. The cheapest offer I think is London Womens Clinic. Three goes for 2k plus donor sperm.

Im sad to say too but I could have said all those things about my EXDP but now I have some distance I’m sure they were all bc of EA and not an ASD. I think the difference is: if he is really neuro diverse and it’s hard for you, he would go and get diagnosed. And if he isn’t, he won’t, because his agreeing to these things being issues for him is part of his manipulation of you. He thinks - however subconsciously - “neuro diverse? Thanks for the excuse!”

As for my break up, the thing that is helping most is just to imagine the things I want in life that I could never have with him. My baby growing up in a calm household where I feel free to get up and do my own thing without comment. Really delicious sex.

And the feeling of not worrying about a relationship, not worrying how he feels, is so new and so great. It’s a whole other career I am not longer running after. Although my mind doesn’t want to use that energy for anything else rn, it just wants to sleep!

Thank you to everyone who hand held. Im so glad it’s done. I’m just so exhausted by it and I don’t want to feel this way ever again. I’m sad that it might mean the end to a dream of a partner, kids with them - but I am no longer young enough to risk not having children just to keep something alive that’s not real. The path now seems messier, but I’m excited that it’s something I chose rather than a path that everyone was walking down and so I fell into it, thinking this was the way things had to happen. Good luck to everyone leaving. I believe a thoughtful person who leaves never regrets it.

OP posts:
Snorken · 28/11/2022 09:33

OP, it is good to hear your update. I can imagine all sorts of feelings of ups and downs will be happening over the next while. I'm bracing myself for this in January, no idea how I will find the strength to look after myself and my daughter once I've done it but I will find a way. After I left my first abusive husband I found that the adrenaline kept me going and I was surprised by how I actually managed to get up every day, shower, go to work (my collogues were amazing though and really supported me, otherwise i would probably have gone off sick) and eat etc. Sleep was very hard, and the nights were the worst. MY GP prescribed me a mild sedative to take at night, that helped a bit. If I remember correctly, you are near family, hopefully they can support and look after you. I stayed with a female work colleague for a few weeks the last time and she became my 'mum' for a little while which I will always be grateful for.

I've been trying to find the right words re your losses and the grief you must have been through with your babies, it sounds really hard.

Good luck with everything, I will be thinking about you at times.

Teaandtoast35 · 28/11/2022 23:05

Thank you @Snorken. Just that you mention my babies is very nice. Often people can’t think what to say, but just to know people care about them means so much to me.

Good luck to you in January. It’s so hard to be going through it again, isn’t it? But for me it’s the last time I have to learn this lesson and I’m sure it will be the same for you too. I’m putting a moratorium on relationships for a while.

I’ll be thinking of you in the new year xx

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