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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Why sometimes, women stay

27 replies

Voiceofseason · 09/11/2022 12:17

This is quoted from a post on Facebook and it's brilliant. Please be very careful before advising any woman leaves an alcoholic or man with abusive tendencies. Courts can't protect children from abuse they can't see or there is no evidence of.

My mum stayed with my closet alcoholic of a father. If she had left him, he would have been entitled to regular access. He was abusive after drinking but nobody knew. I am so relieved she stayed with him to protect us from his abuse. She left him the moment we did.

"My mother didn’t stay in an abusive relationship because she was unintelligent, weak or trauma bonded. My mother stayed because she believed she could protect her child from the inside better than she could from the outside. My mother chose her position from a place of personal agency, powerful purpose and conscious sacrifice, and she fully accepted her decision without regard for her own happiness and freedom.

Some folks won’t understand that. Some folks will believe that she wasn’t thinking correctly. Some folks would even say her decision was the wrong decision, and it would have been more beneficial for me if she would have left.

Well, let me put it to you this way…As a child, I questioned my mother’s decision——sometimes in my mind and sometimes aloud. I didn’t understand as a child why…why we couldn’t just run away, why we couldn’t just pack up and leave. I didn’t understand as a child that my mother’s sacrifice was a gift to me——that I didn’t fully understand or appreciate until I became an adult. She gave her life so that I might live——she believed unprotected visits with a raging alcoholic whose indifference towards driving drunk, disappearing for hours or days at a time, putting a bottle of booze over food, leaving me with strangers while he went in search of a drink, and drunken tirades that would turn to beatings if there was no one to protect me…was not going to happen on her watch.

You see, when folks think the only reason an abuse victim stays with an abuser is because either she’s weak or trauma bonded, they don’t know anything about abuse. Folks who think abuse ends when a mother escapes, have never thought about the reality that when and if an abuse victim escapes they very well might have to legally send their child, unprotected, back into the very hell they escaped from——for unsupervised custody visits. Folks who think a mother is crazy for sacrificing her life to protect her children need to transfer that disdain to the family courts that disregard the safety and wellbeing of children on a regularly basis——giving unsupervised visits, 50/50 custody and even full custody to abusers.

One size does not fit all. I’m not telling anybody to stay in an abusive relationship. This is not a recommendation for anybody to subject themselves to being hurt, harmed or killed to protect their children. This is a reminder to some that unless we address the broken and often complicit family court system, there are abuse victims who will be forced to choose between the lessor of the two evils——protecting their child in hell or sending their child, unprotected, to hell for unsupervised custody visits. And a reminder that nobody can judge another persons journey, sacrifice is never easy and those who choose sacrifice are just as much deserving of our support as those who escape.

My mother was born in 1925, and died 4 years ago. Not much has changed for abuse victims. I understand my mother’s “why” today, and I am grateful. But, in honor of my mother, I will not rest until no mother has to choose between staying in hell to protect her child and sending her child back into hell, unprotected, for unscrupulous, unsupervised court ordered visitations. We cannot disconnect the victim’s safety and wellbeing from the safety and wellbeing of the children post-separation."

OP posts:
Voiceofseason · 09/11/2022 12:19

Quoted from Patrick Weaver Ministries.

OP posts:
WorldAtWon · 09/11/2022 13:57

"My mother stayed because she believed she could protect her child from the inside better than she could from the outside. My mother chose her position from a place of personal agency, powerful purpose and conscious sacrifice, and she fully accepted her decision without regard for her own happiness and freedom."

This bit made me cry. It perfectly captures where my mind is at. My H is not an alcoholic but is very troubled. Can be very nasty. Paranoid. However, I now how to manage him. I look after him. We get on reasonably well, but I do not love him.

However, my children are young. And I know he will lose his mind if I leave. But he is respectable on paper. I know the courts will give him what he wants.

I choose to stay because I think it is the best for them.

NotReallySure · 09/11/2022 16:15

Agree. It's so easy to say leave, but without hard evidence of abuse the courts see equal parental rights and responsibilities.

ChakaKhanfan · 09/11/2022 16:32

As a child who witnessed domestic violence and was on the receiving end of abuse, I’ve felt an awful lot of hatred towards my mom for not keeping me safe. It’s not until I’ve gotten older that I understand why she chose what she did.
I have spent a lot of my adult life volunteering at Womens Aid and Refuge, the system regularly fails women and their children. (I know violence towards men happens also but it’s significantly less-not that it’s a competition domestic violence in all its forms is abhorrent)

RunLolaRun101 · 09/11/2022 16:36

Yes it’s why I stay too. DH can be so violent and out of control when he’s upset in the slightest way. I refuse to let DS get trapped alone with him in a 50:50 arrangement. The minute he turns 18 I’ll walk. Until then I try to shelter him as much as possible.

bowchicawowwow · 09/11/2022 16:51

This is exactly why I stayed with my ex until he left me for another woman with a ready made family. He lost interest in DS after a couple of attempts at supervised contact which he failed to turn up sober for. The courts don't acknowledge the potential for abuse and neglect. While I stayed in the relationship I managed to shield my young child from direct harm through ex's alcoholism. If he was to have had him unsupervised I dread to think what would have happened. I'm not saying it's the right choice to make but it's the reality of the family courts system for many women.

CapturedLeprechaun · 09/11/2022 20:09

I always thought this, and I stayed.

Eventually I left ExH when I was pregnant with DC3, and the older two were toddlers/pre schoolers. I remember thinking "if my daughter grows up an marries a man like him, or my son grows up and becomes a man like him, I will have failed as a mum", and I decided I could shape their lives into healthy lives better from the outside than the inside.

He now sees them 2 nights a month - he's never wanted more than that. So we get 28 nights a month living in our peaceful wonderful home, where no-one ever raises their voices or feels unsafe. And they get two nights a month at his that are outside of my control. I guess only time will tell if I made the right decision, but generally it feels like I did. I can't explain the joy of having a peaceful happy home, and how the trade off of two nights a month at his feels worth it for safety for 28 nights.

Ofcourseshecan · 09/11/2022 22:50

This happened to a close relative of mine and her little boy. She was stunned that her violent partner got unsupervised action to their son, who was only a toddler. The little fellow used to cling to her, crying. My niece kept trying to get her ex’s access changed but was unsuccessful.

In his teens, the lad stopped seeing his father the moment he was allowed. He is now such a sweet young man, but reclusive. He rarely goes out except to work, and has few friends. He learned as a small child it was safest to keep his head down and be quiet.

Ofcourseshecan · 09/11/2022 22:52

unsupervised action - unsupervised access

HappyBunnyNow · 25/03/2023 05:35

It's such a difficult position to be in and what you choose to do is dependent on how abusive the father is and how young / assertive your kid is. I waited to leave until mine was able to more or less able to look after herself I didn't feel it was safe to leave her with her dad at a young age as he is neglectful and bad tempered. the great thing now she's is that she has options, if he's horrible my ex knows that she will likely refuse to go to his place as there is a safe alternative with me so he behaves better. When we were trapped with him there were no consequences for him and he was a bully. I work with a woman's shelter and hear that once you separate from an abusive man some of them do improve their parenting somewhat as they're afraid of losing custody. Of course all cases are different, mine was largely emotional abuse. I understand why women stay to protect their kids there is no support for parents in this situation unless your case is incredibly extreme. It really frustrates me that courts keep giving abusive men more chances.

ohsotired2022 · 25/03/2023 05:48

I left my abusive partner when my DD was 1.
It didn't take long for him to be drunk, abusive and neglectful to her. He only saw her as a means to get the me, hurt me.

As she born before 2006, he had no parental rights and we went to a family lawyer and he was only allowed to see when supervised.

It was the best decision I made.

I honestly don't think I would be here now if I'd stayed or I would be very, very broken.

My DD is 23 and sees her Bio Dad for what he is.

Zanatdy · 25/03/2023 06:13

That’s a simplistic view. There are many children just as damaged from living in an unhappy abusive home. Trust me, I know. Leaving is always the answer

ohsotired2022 · 25/03/2023 06:26

@Zanatdy I agree.
My Mum asked my drunk and abusive Dad to leave 40 odd years ago.

My Mum says she always remembers my brother who was about 5 cuddling into my Mum and saying "Mummy, it's so calm"

My Dad then showed little interest in having contact with me and my brother.

emptythelitterbox · 25/03/2023 06:35

The chances of them disappearing and being a minimal father is high with these types.

Especially if you imply you're not fussed about his visitation.
Small children cramp selfish men's lifestyle.

The more you express your fears about the kids being with him, the more keen he'll want to fuck with you to be an abusive arse.

My DD also had made up her mind to stay to protect the kids as he constantly threatened to take the kids.

She managed to get a good lawyer and offered lots of visitation to him.
He saw the kids twice and fucked off and that was 4 years ago.

category12 · 25/03/2023 06:46

I feel like it is better to be able to give a child a safe home some of the time than to live in an abusive environment 24/7/365.

The idea a person can shield their children while living in an abusive environment is rather illusory. Children hear, see, experience a lot, can end up pulling abusers off their mum, or attempting to shield their younger siblings in turn.

Also, by staying, it normalises that environment, it's the only life the children know. It also says to them, this treatment is acceptable, that it should be tolerated. People often unconsciously end up recreating the relationships they lived with in childhood in their adult lives.

I know it's a tough decision and obviously if the abusive parent wants access after a split, it's terrifying.

TheProvincialLady · 25/03/2023 07:25

It’s not possible to protect a child from an abusive man by living with him. It’s just not. All you do is prolong the exposure. Children are more likely to do better in an abusive situation when they have a safe, non abusive home to retreat to. Somewhere they can learn what home should feel like. Besides, how do you say to a child “I stay/stayed for your sake.” Whenever you say that, at the time or after the fact, it’s going to be damaging. I speak from experience.

Myneighbourskia · 25/03/2023 07:32

I'm permanently scarred from my mother staying with my narcissistic, abusive father. She was going to leave him when I was 12 but then changed her mind. I always had to walk on eggshells because he was so volatile. It had a lasting impact on my confidence and how I see other people. I wish she'd left.

IHeartGeneHunt · 25/03/2023 07:35

category12 has it. My life was like that. I still have a lot of anger towards my mother and like TheProvincialLady says , we were told she stayed because of us. She's bitter and angry and it's truly horrible to be told that this is down to you. None of my siblings have had normal relationships and neither have I.
He wouldn't have wanted to see us if she'd left. He doesn't want to see us now unless he needs something.

Tuilpmouse · 25/03/2023 08:22

Zanatdy · 25/03/2023 06:13

That’s a simplistic view. There are many children just as damaged from living in an unhappy abusive home. Trust me, I know. Leaving is always the answer

I'm not sure how you could possibly call the OP's post "simplistic". It shows you have either not read the post or don't know what simplistic means.

Disagree and express a different opinion by all means, but calling the OP "simplistic" just makes you seem, well, "simple"!

RatOnArt · 25/03/2023 08:34

I get it. My brother’s ex-wife is a narcissist but he knew that if he left, he’d never see his DC again. When DC1 was small and they were unmarried, she had threatened to take the baby abroad.

GreyCarpet · 25/03/2023 08:51

My dad stayed with my mother for similar reasons.

She wasn't an alcoholic but she was narcissistic and incredibly cruel to me in particular.

My dad told me once when I was in my 20s that he'd stayed to protect us from her because he didn't feel he'd have been able to otherwise.

I didn't really understand what he meant and was a little sceptical even at that age. Home was awful. I couldn't see what protection he had offered us by being there. I was very damaged by it and continue to be so despite therapy etc.

Anyway, long story short. My dad finally left when i was 18 and my brother was 15. He had to. Things had deteriorated to such a point by then thaf it wouldnt have been safe for him to stay. I left home. My dad did what he could to support my brother.

I went on to have two children; conract was always low and supervised but I cut contact with my mother completely when they were 13 and 6 and police and social services became involved. I had the option to 'leave' but i now know exactly why my dad stayed and I'll be forever grateful that he did.

category12 · 25/03/2023 09:04

I think it's a bit different when it's the man as victim, as women tend to keep the children in a split or have them more of the time.

As a generalisation, men are more likely to reduce contact or become absent parents after a split - so chances are greater that if a woman does leave her abusive partner, he will lose interest in the children.

HellyR · 25/03/2023 09:16

TheProvincialLady · 25/03/2023 07:25

It’s not possible to protect a child from an abusive man by living with him. It’s just not. All you do is prolong the exposure. Children are more likely to do better in an abusive situation when they have a safe, non abusive home to retreat to. Somewhere they can learn what home should feel like. Besides, how do you say to a child “I stay/stayed for your sake.” Whenever you say that, at the time or after the fact, it’s going to be damaging. I speak from experience.

I agree. I see the op's point is really about the broken system: "This is a reminder to some that unless we address the broken and often complicit family court system, there are abuse victims who will be forced to choose between the lessor of the two evils"

But there is no attempt to reflect on or measure the harm done by staying and not having home back a safe space. How can you say which is the lesser of two evils when future outcomes are unknown? I appreciate it's almost impossible.

Whydothat · 25/03/2023 09:26

I am a lucky one, the court ordered no contact but thats rare and cafcass were on his side till the eleventh hour. The whole time I was trying not to upset him too much so I could go back to him if he got unsupervised access.
You go to court, trigger your ex then, usually, hand your child back to them unsupervised. I understand why people cant leave, my ex would have taken great pleasure in causing my child as much emotional and non marking physical pain as possible to punish me for leaving him.
If I stayed I would have died before he hurt my child.

JoanThursday1972 · 25/03/2023 09:28

What about men? A man I know has a 15 year old son and a rich, entitled, abusive wife whom he detests but tolerates because of the fear of losing his son and having to start again financially. He's retired and an older dad, The things she's done and the ridiculous whimsical decisions she's made are beyond crazy.. She's belted the boy around the head at home and on public, screamed at him and called him abusive names including the c word. I'm hoping the boy leaves home as soon as possible. He's already damaged.