DP and conspiracy theories

[Sarrah1]

Had a huge fallout with DP yesterday and now I am at a loss where to go from there..

A bit of background, my DP is lovely but he bought into Covid conspiracy theories. The pandemic put massive pressure on our relationship because he was convinced that Covid is not real and made up to push people to get a harmful vaccine, with the media being the main instrument of the conspirators because they are being paid to push the fear. We had countless arguments (because I think that's absolutely batshit, I had my vaccines, and while I respect personal choice when it comes to vaccines and don't mind others not having them, I can't respect pushing a narrative around vaccines being made to intentionally harm people).

We broke up in 2020 because of this, before getting back together (just missed each other too much and didn't want to allow politics and different views to end what we have) and agreed to not talk about this topic again. We had a rough time throughout 2021, but we both made an effort and with Covid being not as big a topic in the media and public life anymore, things went back to normal in early 2022 and we have a lovely relationship since then. He also stopped talking about conspiracy theories, and part of me was hoping that he realised himself now that his Covid theories were wrong, and we are leaving conspiracy theories behind us for good.

The past ten months were bliss, no arguments, no conspiracy theories, everything was just perfect.

Up until yesterday, when we started talking about the cost of living crisis. He thinks that prices are intentionally high - agreed on between governments and private corporates. He doesn't think that there is a need for anything to be more expensive than it was in 2019, e.g. that supermarkets could sell their items to the same prices if they wanted to/the governments would let them.

Now my question...is this a new conspiracy theory I haven't heard of yet? Is he going down another rabbit hole here with an orchestrated cost of living crises by governments and those in powerful positions? Or am I overreacting (oversensitive towards this topic) and this isn't entirely batshit (again)? I cried myself to sleep yesterday, I don't think I can go through another conspiracy theory episode, but also things were just so perfect with him during the past few months when there were no conspiracy theories interfering with our relationship 😢

I think if someone is open to conspiracy theories, then there will always be something that they can latch on to. So it probably won't end, the focus will just change. You could end up with a very long list of taboo topics! Can you live like that, forever?

MY XH was a conspiracy theorist - vaccines, chemtrails, 9/11 etc - and it was one of the many things that made our life together so difficult.

It's more than just a difference of opinion, it's a fundamental incompatibility in how you see the world and it's not - imo - the basis for a successful relationship. I couldn't be in another relationship with someone whose views didn't broadly align with mine, it's just fucking exhausting.

My uncle started like this.

It went from anti Vaxxer / Covid denier to Tump is fantastic, to more recently Putin is actually a very clever man and now The Manchester bombing never happened.

So that's gone from misinformed, to rude, to hugely disrespectful and dangerous in the space of about 6 months.

It's a deal breaker for me (as in it would be in a relationship) and it is as a family member. I want absolutely nothing to do with him.

Personally, I'd leave the relationship now.

Oh no, that sounds terrible...I hope my DP never reaches the 'Putin is great' point. He believes that Russia invaded the Ukraine (so far).

Hmmm. Peddling nonsense about covid not being real and it all being part of some grand plan to vaccinate the population with microchips or whatever, is not an "opinion". It's a harmful batshit crazy lie.

OP, I'm sorry you found yourself in this position. If my husband had started buying into this and believing it, I think I would have lost all respect for him. I don't think it's something I could get past, I would just never look at him in the same way again.

He believes that Russia invaded the Ukraine (so far)

I bet if you prodded him, he'd have some 'interesting' views about that as well, tbh.

I don't believe that conspiracy opinions should hold as much value as actual facts.

If I like say jazz music is best, that's an opinion. If I think I look great in orange, that's an opinion. If I say the earth is flat, that's just wrong and I shouldn't expect other people to respect my (wrong) opinion. The polite thing to do is to avoid interactions with people who you will never be able to agree with. But that's impossible when it's your DP.

Some conspiracies are plain offensive or dangerous, and it would be crazy to 'respect' those opinions.

But you can respect the right of people to hold them, no matter how crazy it may seem to you, whilst steering well clear.

There is a cardiologist who is saying same as your partner. He is also one of UK top doctors. Is he a conspiracy therost? I'm sorry but at this stage things are very questionable regarding world events. If you want to live in your bubble and not question anything thats up to you. Maybe your not compatible anymore ? Who cares about Trump, Biden is and empty vessel and have family in the USA and he is doing a terrible job. Who are you to question an alternative opinion to what the mainstream says. We have our own lives and opinion. Thank you elon musk for allowing freedom of speech on twitter. You need to learn that

Suuuuure. We should also be considering both sides when it comes to flat earthworm, it's unjustly maligned.

I don't believe that conspiracy opinions should hold as much value as actual facts

But this argument falls flat because some people believe that it's a fact that the earth is flat. There is no objective truth. Everyone has their own, and it doesn't matter how much proof you have, their truth will still be their truth, and who gets to be the final arbiter of whether you're right or I am? Nobody does. All we can do is, if I believe that your opinion is wrong, work out a way to make that work between us. We either stay apart, or we agree to disagree. Or we try to change each other's views, but if we don't respect each other, that's going to be hard.

When you talk about things having value, who is valuing them? What I value isn;t the same as what you value, and what you value isn't the same as what the bloke next door values, so whose 'value' is the right value? Nobody is more important than anyone else.

'Conspiracy opinions' can be really valuable, like the long held opinion that smoking tobacco was bad for your health, even though doctors were recommending it. That conspiracy opinion was 'wrong', according to people with a similar outlook to yours. Should they have piped down, with their value-free opinion, do you think?

Believing in conspiracy theories is a symptom of a fundamental insecurity in the world, expressed as distrust of "facts" that have not been personally verified and are certain to be absolutely true with zero degree of doubt. The more the subject touches their fears and anxieties, the more they will turn to conspiracy theories. Your DP isn't going to change - there will always be something.

Because conspiracy theories are flaky and wildly implausible attempts for people to deal with the uncertainties of life and pretend to themselves that they are "in the know". They start falling apart as soon as you start to think about the actual logistics of keeping them "secret". And they rely on thousands of people acting like no human being acts.

But how can we seriously consider conspiracy statements such as that vaccines were introduced to INTENTIONALLY harm people as a valid opinion? I agree that many other points and claims that were made are up for discussion - how good they really are in preventing transmission, whether there are any/too many side effects, whether vaccines should be recommended for everyone regardless of their general health, whether lockdowns did more harm than good, etc, and there is probably no right or wrong with many of these. As for your question, I would not call a cardiologist who wants to talk about possible side effects of vaccines a conspiracy theorist, but I would call them a conspiracy theorist if they claimed that Covid doesn't exist and the whole purpose of vaccines is to depopulate the earth.

There have been conspiracies over the years and this is the foundation for people believing pretty much anything - I think it's about a lack of trust. I listen to podcast - You are not so smart - which talks a lot about why people believe in conspiracies and how you might approach someone with a belief you think is out there. I have not listened to them all but they are interesting. There are a few interesting ones about flat earth.

This thread is turning into OP debating the actual conspiracy theory, rather than working out what to do about her relationship.

If you disrespect his strong feelings about things so much that you don't even consider them to be 'opinions' (what do you call them instead?) then there is a respect problem in your relationship.

...There literally is an objective truth about whether the earth is flat or not. It is not accepted by flat-earthers, obviously, but that doesn't make it less objectively, mathematically true.

Believing smoking is harmful is also not a conspiracy theory. It was a legitimate difference of opinion - if there even was much of a lobby that thought so before the 1950s - that existed before there was sufficient empirical data to establish objective truth. We're there now. Anyone who believes smoking is good for you now is flat wrong. Doctors that believed it before data existed to prove it one way or the other were uninformed, but not conspiracy theorists.

Who is the judge of whether something is true or not? And how is their opinion deemed to be objective? Who's in charge? It's not science, because scientific facts are disproven all the time. It's not law, because those are man made. So what determines something to be true, other than lots and lots of people believing it to be?

How can you be in a relationship with someone who is so clearly stupid?

I’m not surprised there are more and more people succumbing to conspiracy theories, especially if they are inclined to mistrust authority. The conduct of the government and media over the past few years has been light fuel to the flame.

I don't think I have a problem with respecting a different opinion...he also thinks that Trump was a great president, for example - I absolutely disagree, but it is an opinion and I can accept that and don't have any issues.

I'll be honest, someone thinking Trump was a great president would be it for me.

He's a fan of a 'grab them by the pussy' man who took the piss out of a disabled man on stage, has a history of racist comments... and so many other things?

Decent, lovely blokes wouldn't be a fan of Trump.

Or being called 'sheeple'. They love that one too!

Had a real life conversation with a "grown-up" who thinks all science, history, oh everything is an opinion!

I was, you know baby steps, trying to explain that no matter how many times I dropped his lighter on the bench table it would never go up, gravity and all that opinion like stuff, nope wouldn't have it.

But much science doesn't change it's how we can land robots on Mars.

Believing conspiracy stuff doesn't bother me actually, it's the "we all know the real truth" you are uninformed sheep, that's the issue. And the fact it's all mixed up with, everything that you have failed in life is clearly someone else's fault, because you iz a god! That shit is at best boring.

@frozendaisy

Science is what we know so far, and what questions we currently have. Any scientist will tell you that. What is a 'fact' in your opinion? What constitutes a 'fact'? How is it defined?

As a counter to conspiracy theories, there is the 'cock-up' view of human affairs, namely that a lot of things which occur are down to humans in the main being disorganised, lazy and inept.
In the spirit of Occam's Razor, I frequently find this more plausible.
I wonder what your husband would think of this