Just lost 2.5 hours to bickering/arguing

[Juhgloosh]

Not really sure what I’m asking but just - feeling frustrated. Sat down to start work in home office this morning with cup of cereal, P immediately went into a hurt strop as I didn’t bring him some (he makes most meals, which I’m grateful for, and if I’d have ‘made’ something - coffee, a bowl of fruit, cooked food - I’d have made him some also. However I’d just thrown some fruit & fibre into a mug).

He was very sulky and complained and went off to get some. When he got back I said calmly that it’s one thing saying - oh, you could have brought me some! - it’s another thing going into a sulk and creating an atmosphere over nothing. He then denied all knowledge of what I was talking about, claiming he hadn’t got annoyed, didn’t know what I meant, etc. (🙄)

After a point I got cross - I can’t bear someone pretending something didn’t happen or trying to make you think you imagined something that you both know just happened. At which point he adopts a super calm ‘reasonable’ voice and starts telling me there’s no need to get angry, calm down, etc. Aggghh!

I asked if we could work in separate rooms as usual to just draw a line under it (two office spaces, we mostly do work in separate rooms) and sat and got on with something else. Within 15 minutes he’d come in and started asking if I wanted him to help with a task I’d mentioned earlier in the week.

I said I’d let him know if/when I needed any help (possibly with some impatience). And the whole thing started up again, him telling me I don’t need to be so angry (I wasn’t - I was getting on with something quietly and trying to concentrate!) etc etc. I just wanted some space and to get on.

Finally I’m sat at my desk now having done nothing so far today (I’m SE).

Not quite sure what my question is exactly just seems madness - this is our working day!

What did him 'going into a hurt strop' look like? Is he denying actual words he said? Stamping his feet? Huffing? You seem certain about how he was feeling.

Does this sort of thing happen often? Sounds like he's winding you up and then telling you off for being wound up, is that about right? That's a known manipulation tactic. DARVO, it's called. Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. Maybe google it and see if it looks like what he's up to?

him telling me I don’t need to be so angry

This, in itself, is minimisation of your feelings. Who is he? The boss and arbiter of what you need and don't need to feel? Who put him in charge?

What Watchkeys wrote.

He is punishing you deliberately here and his behaviour towards you is rooted in abuse. There's emotional abuse, gaslighting and DARVO.

How long have you and he been together?. You and he should not be together any more.

My partner does this in disagreements. He will sulk, then claim he hasn't. He doesn't do it to be abusive (I don't think), but he is generally a defensive person and, if I'm brutally honest, emotionally immature.

I have no advice. I guess people aren't perfect.

How common is it? Is he kind etc otherwise?

If it's normally a healthy relationship then I think it's probably worth sitting down and discussing how to avoid those type of interactions going forwards.

When he saw I’d got myself some cereal his face dropped and he said something like - you didn’t get me any? I hadn’t thought to and just said - oh, it’s only cereal. He basically complained that I’d only got myself some as he would have got us both some and acted very hurt and sulky. Huffy and stropped off to get himself some. Not a massive thing in itself and just silly. Not especially something he does often. The bit that bothered me was when he started claiming he hadn’t been annoyed about it at all when he clearly had! I feel like how can you communicate with someone who denies all knowledge and tries to claim you’ve imagined something.

I agree about the anger thing - it’s actually and it’s a bit of a pattern to be honest as I will get frustrated and he will then get very calm and be the ‘reasonable’ one (and I do get how it’s easier to feel in control if the other person gets cross). When I got annoyed about the denial (having been calm before), the stroppiness evaporated, he then became calm and all about problem solving - hey there’s no need to get angry, etc. So he sort of us back in control of the situation and gets to play the peacekeeper. Annoying!

Will Google the DARVO thing.

Funnily enough I was seeing a counsellor for a bit earlier this year and he said something similar about getting angry not being acceptable or somehow meaning that you’ve ‘lost’ the conversation – it’s ok to be angry, it’s not a crime. I started pointing out to P around this time that I was allowed to be angry (if he ‘pointed out’ that I was being angry).

I know when we first met he would keep a very deadpan face while saying low level annoying things and staying calm while I got annoyed - like his flex being that he was dead calm and I was flying off the handle - he admitted early on in the relationship and did stop. He is generally a peacekeeper (in friendships etc as well), a bit of a people pleaser, and doesn’t like lingering tension after an argument, however there may be shades of this happening on occasion too (and possibly he’s only aware of it on later reflection).

I’m just feeling very frustrated as I feel like he’s pushed for an argument and it’s totally disrupted the day.

He is generally a kind person. We are both working from home at the moment and I feel frustrated at this sort of bickering wasting time.

To be honest in lots of ways I’d consider him very emotionally intelligent and mature. This denying he was annoyed or being sulky etc is a point of annoyance though, and what particularly irritates me is the switching to peacekeeper when I start to lose my cool. He cares a lot about being a good person and I feel he gets to congratulate himself on resolving things when it was him who initiated the whole thing in the first place! While I’m left feeling annoyed and am manoeuvred into being the counterpart in this dynamic - the one being placated/calmed. Don’t know if any of that makes sense!

It all makes sense. I don't know if my view is 'right' or not but I'm speaking as someone in a healthy 15 year relationship with three kids...

No one is perfect. We all manipulate to get our own way or feel a certain way at times. It's human nature. We're all annoying at times. We all misread situations, get upset/angry etc.

I think what matters is that generally it's a healthy, loving relationship. You get on most of the time, support each other and feel good about being together.

No relationship avoids arguments or people being a bit stupid at times.

And my genuine view (rightly or wrongly) is that if being a twat sometimes is a deal-breaker, then people won't have long term relationships.

That's not to say you could work on improving communication though.

God, men are so tiresome. He would never in a million years act that way with friend or colleague, it's just not OK behaviour.

Whilst I do think it may have been a nice gesture to ask if he would like something (it can really be the smallest gestures which makes someone feel appreciated and cared for) I agree with what @Watchkeys said about what he did.

My husband has a tendency to do the same and whilst in the past I would end up walking away feeling crazy I do not let it fly anymore. My persistence in knowing I’m not crazy and that I interpreted the situation as I did has actually forced DH to face up to that side of himself (not a given btw) and our relationship has improved hugely. If he ever does it now I tend to make light of it whilst highlighting I know what he’s doing, and it snaps him out of it.

It’s a very childish behaviour but unfortunately very common.

My dh can be a bit like this sometimes, I've found rather than saying things like 'you just got stroppy' if I said 'your behaviour upset me'. He used to then start with the 'stop being a victim' type response, but I found if I stood my ground and said 'I'm not being a victim, I'm entitled to feel upset and I'm telling you, your behaviour makes me feel upset' this actually helped defuse it and I felt I got my point across. Rather than having to win. It's almost like saying 'I'm angry, you pissed me off acting like a stroppy teenager and actually, I'm allowed to get angry and there's nothing wrong feeling angry'

This sounds exhausting. We both WFH and I wouldn't dream of getting my husband's breakfast or lunch, nor would he for me! We're both grown ups and can sort ourselves out. We obviously take it in turns to cook dinner but that's different. This just sounds like petty squabbling about nothing and I can see why you're frustrated.

It is exhausting! And I kind of feel the same as you. I will happily just grab something functional, however my P will ‘make’ something for breakfast and/or lunch (which to be honest I also find a bit frustrating at times as I don’t want to eat big piles of food every meal and sometimes just want to eat quick and get on with my day rather than hanging on for him to emerge from the kitchen..! I appreciate it and know it’s meant to be caring and nice but yeah - I’m happy just getting on with it sometimes..!!)

I just feel like I’m losing time and opportunities here. There was an intro webinar/meeting scheduled today for new contractors with a company I started working with in the summer, and I missed it as I was preoccupied with P. It just feels like madness and I feel frustrated and resentful about getting sucked into nonsense.

OP I would just tell him that then - you don't need elaborate meals every mealtime and why don't you both just agree to sort yourselves out.

That’s a good point about approaching that sort of conversation - it might have been better to lead with ‘I feel upset that…’ rather than ‘there was no need to do xxx and cause a bad atmosphere’

Well done on standing your ground!!!

Thanks for this response - a good point and a bit of a breath of fresh air on mumsnet!!!

I agree.

I appreciate the balanced view, thank you :)

Tbf- he cooks most of the meals. Yet you didn't think to get him something.
It's the opposite way round here. I cook EVERYTHING- and he will stand there and make himself something.. and not even offer me ANYTHING! Sometimes he will even eat all of my chocolate (because he munched his way through his chocolate far quicker than I do).
Fucking selfish.
Your DP knows it was a bowl of cereal- he knows it's not something that he can be stroppy about and he knows it's such a minor thing so I can imagine he doesn't want to admit he feels bad about a bowl of cereal - he's disappointed because you obviously don't have his welfare (feeding him) as a priority.
To him this shows you don't care.
Does this resonate?

Just to add- as I should have added this : it looks like his love language is feeding (he sees it as caring for / loving) you ?
That's why he overreacted?

No that’s not really a reflection of how things are. If I’d made a coffee or tea I’d have done us both one. If I’d have prepared a bowl of fruit - or yoghurt and honey - or buttered toast - I’d have done us both one. It was because it was so functional that I didn’t (and also partly as I wouldn’t have assumed he wanted some). I actually love cooking but so does he and he has just sort of assumed the role of doing food, which he enjoys, while I’ll do more of housework type things. I think it’s a bit of a reach (and a bit unfair) to suggest that I therefore don’t have his welfare as a priority.

But I do see that for him in that moment he obviously just felt a bit hurt and agree with what you’re saying about feeding being a gesture of care and nurturing. And we all have our moments.

Can totally understand how crap it feels when you consistently do something for someone and then they don’t bother thinking of you or reciprocating (so you’re thinking of them and they’re thinking of them too!). I think sometimes people just take things for granted and forget that someone else is putting in effort because they care. Can see how hurtful that might be.

This sounds eerily like arguments I have had with my DH over and over again since lockdown 1. One of the worst arguments I ever had with DH was when I grabbed myself a bowl of cereal and didn't get him one either. Like you, I just thought it was a functional and boring thing and didn't think anything of it, plus my DH doesn't particularly care for cereal anyway. I don't really have any advice for you other than that I don't think you have been unreasonable at all. In the case of my relationship, cereal-gate has been part of a wider pattern of moodiness and chaotic behaviour, with DH reacting to small things angrily, huffing, scowling etc, me getting rattled by his mood and asking what's up, him getting angry with me for asking him and then denying he did anything. so maybe I'm not the best person to offer advice on the situation as it hits a bit too close to home. I hope you find some peace of mind, OP

you didn’t get me any? I hadn’t thought to and just said - oh, it’s only cereal.

You didn't apologise. If you had said "oh sorry, I didn't think because its only cereal" it would have diffused it there and then. You hurt his feelings and you didn't apologise.

My dh never says sorry either. Makes me feel like shit.

Think his feelings were hurt, and he knew it was over something small that meant more to him than it should have. So he couldn't or wouldn't talk about it, or explain it, so he denied it. Either that or he's a gaslighting, DARVO using abuser. Or something in between. Communication, emotional maturity, self knowledge and understanding, all so easy on paper, so much more difficult in the heat of the moment. An apology can help cut through the fog though - sorry, I didn't think to ask if you wanted cereal as well - oh that's ok, I dont really like it anyway.

Excuse me, you’re projecting on me that I never apologise because your DH doesn’t?!

I was just surprised - I think a brief snippet written down is hard to convey tone etc (could have been said in any number of ways). I didn’t react uncaringly, just took me by surprise that he was fussed, and that was my initial response. I think I probably did say ‘oh sorry’ when I realised he was bothered, but also thought the sulking and pouting was unnecessary.

I don’t think under the circumstances there was actually any obligation to apologise.

‘You hurt his feelings’ by grabbing a mug of fruit and fibre as I rushed to my desk? I mean, really?

I don't agree with Pp that it's all his fault.
The whole food thing is a bit odd to me anyway, why would you both fancy toast or yoghurt or fruit or coffee at exactly the same time? But anyway. That's your couple thing. And you didnt get him any cereal. He had a bit of a huff and expressed surprise you hadn't got him any and went off to get some.

It doesn't sound like he made a huge deal of it, he didn't have a go at you, it doesn't sound like he was banging around or swearing under his breath or any other passive aggressive shit. He articulated that his feelings were hurt because you didn't consider him as he would have considered you. It could have been left there. You could have reflected on it and told him that next time you will. Or that the eating and drinking matching snacks isn't really working for you any more. Instead you kind of invalidated his feelings by telling him he had 'gone into a sulk (which sounds a lot worse than 'being upset') over 'nothing' when its actually his right to be upset over it. Then after doing this you accuse him of creating a bad atmosphere. When all he did was tell you he was upset and go and get himself some food. It feels like you backed him into a corner a bit. In the heat of the moment no one is going to admit to being in a 'sulk' or 'creating an atmosphere', they might admit to being annoyed but thats it. So he denied it. I don't think either of you is blameless. I think getting so annoyed about it that you missed a work thing and didnt do anything for 2.5 hours is a bit OTT

Life is too short for living with a child like guy. Sulking and stropping because you didn't bring him some cereal! What does he do when you forget to wipe his bottom?

If this is your typical response when questioned then I'm not surprised at his reaction.

I'm not projecting at all, but the fact you've turned on me out of proportion to my post makes me think I've hit a nerve 🤔

Thanks for your message!

Re the getting food, it’s not a rule as such, just more that if one of us is making coffee or something ‘nice’, we’d ask if the other wanted one/some too - but I think that’s quite normal isn’t it?!

With the cereal, it was just something quick and functional as I needed to get to my desk, had just been giving the bathroom a thorough clean (we’ve got visitors coming this week) so was starting later than usual and wanted to get on with some work. If I’d thought he might be upset at not having some too I’d have made him some at the same time.

I wasn’t annoyed that he was upset/disappointed, it was more the way he communicated it (although I get we’re all human and probably no-one communicates maturely and assertively on every single occasion). It was the glowering, pouting and stomping which I felt was unnecessary and a bit passive aggressive. And I do think (particularly) if it’s during the working day it’s really difficult to manage work and being productive alongside bickering, squabbling, emotional conversations, etc. It’s stressful and takes a lot of effort not to let it affect what you’re doing (ime I’d say particularly so working as a sole trader / SE where there isn’t the buffer and structure of managers, colleagues, monitored working hours, etc. providing structure and support).

So although I was happy to take his feelings into account, I also wanted him to know that the way he communicated it was stressful and it created a tense atmosphere. I do think he has a choice how he responded, although I do appreciate that none of us is perfect, and I’m sure we’ve all had such moments.

I hear what you’re saying about backing him into a corner and that it would have been better to phrase it more diplomatically. I definitely could have responded better and in a way that diffused the situation more effectively. I see your point that no-one wants to be told they’re being stroppy in the moment that they’re being stroppy! Although I do also tend to think that just because one person gets their back up it doesn’t mean it’s on everyone else to tiptoe round them and not mention it!! He does also have form for denying that he’s pissed off / telling me that I’ve imagined PA behaviour (which I suppose is the point of it), which rightly or wrongly I find stressful and feel the need to establish shared acknowledgement that I’m not imagining stuff. In this case he flat out denied that he’d been annoyed at all! Perhaps a less confrontational approach would help things in the heat of the moment. Later on when it’d calmed down he did admit (unprompted) that of course he’d been annoyed and he felt he’d overreacted over something pretty small.

The bickering and then talking it out went on a lot longer than detailed here - this is just an outline of details. Personally I find it very emotionally draining and found when I was for eg working for an employer a few years back that it’s good for your sanity to have a bit of everyday normality during the day when you’re dealing with people on a professional / friends level and not navigating relationship issues with your partner.

I think, thinking it through more, it’s to do with boundaries and just needing to be able to focus during work hours. We’re both working at home SE (so not as employees) and I think this can present challenges.

I appreciate the differing perspective as it’s made me consider things from his side a bit more and take a more considered look at my own behaviour. Thanks for the response.