DH acts odd around his parents

[Differentaround]

For background, me and DH have been together for 15 years and have 2 DS under 5. We had a few minor issues with MIL when children were born, but nothing major and get on with them ok, although she can be a bit overbearing and negative. The big issue at the moment is the way my DH acts around them, he seems very nervous and anxious, and doesn’t socialise with them when the come and stay to see grandkids - for example I’m now sitting in the lounge with his DM and he’s in another room 🙈. Other examples, my DS wouldn’t eat dinner tonight and my DH started telling him off saying don’t be silly it your dinner, you won’t get any pudding, stop being a baby etc, which is very out of character as he often won’t eat dinner and we just let it go, and mealtimes are very relaxed and we have a laugh. I wasn’t happy and said so as I feel he upset my DS, and feel I have to explain to MIL that he isn’t normally like that! It’s starting to get to me as the atmosphere is just so awkward when they come and i actually feel sorry for my DH as he just seems so upset and kn edge. For background he is a great dad and we have a very calm home life, don’t argue etc but my DH can be awkward around other people, particularly socially awkward around his parents! For more context his parents aren’t the best at showing emotion and are very close to his sister…anyone had similar situation? What should I do?

Sorry pressed send too soon, he seems like he wants everything to be perfect around them and gets hyper stressed when they are not

Yes, I had a similar situation with DH and his parents.

He would leave the bulk of the socialising to me (when at their house read one of their papers and let me do the talking/when at our house disappear off to another room...). He also has a sister that he perceives to be the golden child.

When our DC was young he very much did went out of his way to meet his parents expectations (and at times putting their demands above everyone else at times that were completely inappropriate - particularly if it was a place where his sister had put in boundaries that he knew his parents didn't like). I think he was unconsciously competing with his sister in this new phase of life - competing to be the golden child? Not sure.

I enjoyed his parents company to start with, so I didn't mind at all really - then I started to see what he saw, what he grew up with. My take on it now is that they have pitted their children against each other so that they compete (both have dropped that rope now) - and this rope was very much picked up by both of them when the DC were little. There is a lot more I could say here but I'll skip to now...

DC are now late teens, after 20 years of marriage DH is still now and again telling me about the odd messed up thing they did before he met me/was a kid. He only recently told me he doesn't like them and thinks they are both ***s.

Have you noticed that your DH become more grumpy/irritable in the days/hours leading up to a visit and for a while afterwards? I had that with mine.

I don't really know how to handle it - I don't know that your situation below the surface is anything like mine. I wish I had done the following sooner though (however, DH also had to process his feelings too and that took years - and it took them hurting me and the DC like they hurt him to really see it):

• Make it very clear to DH that is wasn't acceptable to hide behind a paper/disappear off to another room and leave the socialising up to me.
• Dropped my own FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) around what should be done. I ended up having counselling for this.
• Stopped being a go-between - I slowly faded out them being able to email/text me by referring everything back to DH.
• Encourage DH and support him to have the relationship he can handle with them and no more.
• I very much avoid ever mentioning them

My goodness me, you have just described my situation!! Especially the grumpiness leading up to visits, and afterwards but my DH refusing to say there is anything wrong. And at first I thought they were great but since children came along I’ve started to see things in a different light. Golden child recently got married and the wedding was ok (apart from one of the brothers going on about how she pretends to be better than them) but DH was horribly grumpy afterwards. I’m sick of feeling on edge while they are here and it’s 50% them and 50% how mu DH acts around them. I can cope with awkwardness pre kids but since kids I can feel my four year old picking up on my DH strange mood around them, and that’s not acceptable to me. Last night i felt I had to explain to MIL that DH doesn’t normally act like that and how I feel he feels pressure to give off the impression that the kids are well behaved when they are here, she says she doesn’t care and she is like me and never told her kids off (I go in for gentle parenting approach). This I know isn’t true as I’ve heard stories that she was strict when they were kids. I feel an strange atmosphere when they are here that I have to impress them but don’t know why! DH personality changes around his sister as well, there was one incident when we went to see her where he was just so on edge and rude to everyone, almost like self sabotage. Managed to put my foot down about Xmas this year and we are spending it at home with my fam I can’t wait! It’s hard isn’t it, I feel we have a lovely life but this is a fly in the ointment. His dad won’t talk about emotions at all and his mum would never admit mistakes, but also makes it obvious in subtle ways that his sister is too dog….argh. I am trying to get DH to organise stuff but he just doesn’t and I do feel guilty because I want my kids to have a relationship with their grandparents.

To the demands as well, yes to that, he refused to stand up to his MOther when the children were born about me not wanting her to come and stay…in the end we reached a compromise that they could come but I got to stay in my room and didn’t have to socialise with them!

I am your DH in this situation. I had a dysfunctional upbringing and although I appear quite normal in the rest of my life, around my parents I revert right back to that anxious, overcompensating child in their presence.

Hence the minimal contact.

I’m so sorry 💐 I feel bad as at first I got angry with my DH for being what I saw as being unsociable but now seeing it for what it is. His mum also does a strange thing where she calls his sister on speakerphone if people aren’t socialising with her when she stays with us. This has come to a head now as my child idolises her grandmother but is also picking up (or will soon pick up) on the weird atmosphere so I don’t know what to do, also DH still drop everything to do things for them (eg rushing up to one of their houses on a Sunday to do a chore)

I have always found the same with my husband and in the end we've reduced contact. This was largely led by him - I didn't want to be the sort of daughter in law or person who tried to control the relationship between my husband and other people so I bit my tongue and lived with it but fortunately he reached the end of his tether without any help from me. He and I both wanted to facilitate a good relationship between the grandparents and our daughters but we both realised that MIL will no doubt be as toxic to them as her own children so we felt they would be better off with low contact. She doesn't seem to have realised yet that this is strategic and we have both stopped feeling guilty about it as we now see it as protecting our children.

How far away do they live that means they have to stay?

If your DH is anything like mine I think you'll have to tread very lightly with this one - he seems still deep in the denial/FOG stage. I think in our case it was compounded a bit because my parents were already dead before DC arrived and I very much wanted this family relationship and grandparents for my DC, so I was too.

Who arranges the visits etc?

We are low contact (very low if you consider how close we live) with his parents too now I should add and like @SharpLily it has come from DH - stepping back helped him do this I think. I was definitely making it worse by helping with socialising and arranging things - it is much better now.

They live far enough away that they have to stay. Since they moved my DH doesn’t go and see them his excuse that he doesn’t like staying there…they don’t really arrange stuff it’s more like we are coming on this date for this long and my DH says yes ok in the WhatsApp group immediately. The visits aren’t that often but I am just reaching the end of my tether when they stay more than a day, and it’s always at really inconvenient times, ie kids first day at school etc 🙈. We aren’t at a stage where I can just say no to them, as my DH wouldn’t be on board

My DH reverts to sulky child around his parents. I think partly because his parents have never treated him (or his older brother) as an adult. To be honest I feel like I’ve managed the growing up there - for example, when her sons were 27 and 22 and both living independently by theirselves, she would still expect to do all the cooking and cleaning for the weekend when she visited (lived five hours away) and was genuinely surprised when I made DH say “no, you’re visiting, let me cook dinner tonight”.

Luckily I have two sons of my own and I am determined to crack the for the next generation.

Yes to all this! She always wants to do the cooking and seemed genuinely surprised and shocked when my DH cooked! This however has got better over the years…it made Christmas with her here very stressful for me.

It is really tricky @Differentaround - I'm sorry you've got this in your life.

Sounds like you will need to wait until he is ready to start putting in boundaries. I think there is a lot to be said for biting your tongue and quietly putting your own boundaries in place without announcing them - like finding something to do elsewhere when he disappears off to another room rather than entertaining his parents for him.

Thanks for replying, I’m kind of glad (although obviously ideally none of us would be in this situation) that someone else is going through the same and I’m not going mad! For a while I thought they are perfectly nice and my DH is just an a* but he’s not, I know he’s not as I live with him! Part of me resents that they are now swooping in playing the doting grandparents while not really making the effort with DH. The texts are always that they are looking forward to seeing the kids, not him, I’m also hyper aware as parent now not to show favouritism and have been reading up on how to maintain good relationships with adult children 🙈. I have disappeared upstairs to read a book leaning them alone in the lounge a few times but the guilt is overwhelming, especially as MIL looks so upset to be left alone 🤷‍♀️

Yep I'm like your dh too, although I don't think I get moody and rude, more anxious and on edge. I have a similar situation with my db being the golden child, me the scapegoat, I believe my dm is narcissistic and my dad enables by blocking it all out / ignoring it. It's all very dysfunctional and I've had counselling because at first I found it hard to accept, there was some denial and I didn't want it to be true.

My dm has hurt me more than anyone else and the relationship is very tense, since I had counselling several times over the last 10 years I've gradually changed my stance. Me pulling back, having less contact, and not always trying to please her and get her approval anymore has made her angry though, and she often behaves like a spoilt child. When she's not having strops or being overly dramatic she's very overbearing and manipulative. Since we were little she's pitted me and db against each other but I refuse to be part of it anymore. She hates not being able to control us / everything anymore.
It was really having dc that compounded everything, you think of your own childhood and upbringing and it really shone a stark light on how dm treated me. I still get flashbacks to things that she said or did when I was growing up and there are constantly situations where I think how could you behave like that to your own child / why was I never good enough, because I can't imagine ever feeling like that about my dc or doing things like dm did to me.

I wonder if having dc has had the same effect on your dh op? Brought everything to the surface? If he's willing to talk to you about it I'd suggest counselling or if he's not ready for that read some books on the subject. It's a lot to process and I had a lot of anger and resentment. My self esteem used to be non existent because of my dm. I also used to do what your dh did, with being strict and different with dc when dm was around. I tried to make out to dm I was doing what I knew her expectations were of me with my dc, the finishing dinner or no pudding type of things. Unpicking it I was on edge she'd judge me or disapprove of my parenting, because I was always under her microscope and expectations, criticisms etc. It's something I recognised early on with my dc when dm was around and stopped myself. Then she'd say I was too soft on dc and they need discipline, good table manners etc. If she says that now I try not to engage or I'll actually stand up to her depending on the comments and how much she's wound me up already!
I find the dysfunctional relationship exhausting and perhaps your dh does so he leaves it to you to socialise so he can avoid the situation? I hope he can talk about it with you, sounds like he needs some help with dealing with the emotions and experiences, and maybe if he's ok with opening up you can both put a plan in place for future interactions and contact, he might need a bit of help, men aren't always the best with talking about feelings (well my dh isn't!)

I would think that counselling for DH could make a big difference - he's obviously bottled it up for ever. Getting it out can help.
Why do the DCs need a good relationship with them. There's a risk they behave the same with them - one being the favourite.

I am genuinely worried what is going to happen when the sister has children, I worry about it a lot 🙄

I agree that your DH would benefit from counselling as it sounds like there are a lot of unresolved issues from his childhood.

What will happen then is that his sister and her children will continue to be favoured and you people will be further scapegoated.

You need to stay well away from his parents, just look at what they have done to your husband.

Why would you want a person who you describe as both overbearing and negative in yours, let alone your kids, lives?. Children need emotionally healthy grandparents ideally and his parents simply do not fit the bill. You likely come from an emotionally healthy family, your husband here is not so fortunate. Your wish for them to have a relationship with your children is a decision you may well come to regret making. Would you have tolerated this from a friend?.

He remains very much in a fear, obligation and guilt state when it comes to his parents, his mother in particular. He is still trying to seek her approval, not that she would ever give him this anyway. They being at all in your home denies your husband a safe space within it. He is far more afraid of them than he is of you and is not above using you as a buffer between you and them too.

Do read Toxic In-laws by Susan Forward, he could read Toxic parents by the same author. Counselling for him could help him, at the very least he needs to look at Dr Ramani on YouTube.

Thanks guys, it’s so hard as from outside they look like middle class, normal, friendly parents with lots of friends and before kids I used to get on with them really well and actually think it was my DH being rude and childish. Words like narcassistic scare me a bit as she doesn’t seem to fit the bill (of what I had in my head of a narcissist ). Part of me wants to speak to the sister and get her version but worried about the backlash…I will read those books. Don’t want to be outing but one of the other siblings seems like they are also trying to distance themselves and the MIL gets upset about it…and from things they have said seem more openly jealous of golden child…so I know it’s not just in my head! Thinking back she did act strange on our wedding day and when we got engaged, seeming upset that we didn’t get married sooner and then went to bed early on the wedding day itself. Feel like I’m having a bit of an epiphany about it haha

These dysfunctional types can appear on the surface at least to be quite plausible to those in the outside world. Read a lot more about narcissistic personality disorder and see how much of this fits with her behaviour.

His mother went to bed on your wedding day because a) she was pissed off that she was not getting the attention she wanted and b) in order to get attention, attention that was rightly on yourselves when you got married. It was your day, not hers. But she still wanted it to be about her.

There is no point whatsoever in speaking to your sister in law as she is likely to be a carbon copy of her mother.

Sounds very like my DH and his parents. I was absolutely flabbergasted about the way he behaved when they were around, he was like a different person.
In the end he did begin to talk about his very disfuncyional childhood and he went to therapy. He’s told me a lot of things which he’d kept completely hidden and I just feel so sorry that he had to put up with that childhood. They are outwardly very upstanding, middle class, well thought of members of the community with lots of friends, but he did suffer awful emotional and physical abuse which he’s still dealing with.

Thanks everyone you are making me feel less alone. It’s funny, we were one of those annoying families who had a fantastic lockdown (sorry if that sounds insensitive) no fights, lovely family time, no stress, despite working from home with DS. I wonder why? 🙈

Her children will be favoured and your children will be, at least partly, dropped - especially when they hit 9/10. When they are with you they will talk about the other grandchildren a lot. If the similarities in our situation continue (SIL has her DC before us though)...

I would think long and hard before talking to SIL about this. When my DC were little and I was visiting SIL alone I told her about something FIL had told us (as a way to put DH down) that I was 99% sure was a lie (it was about SIL/BIL finances) and no where near the truth (not that they ever discussed finances with them). SIL was furious (and drunk) and directed her anger at me rather than them. Now I know SIL more (been NC for 7 years now though) I understand she is actually worse than PIL (DH did warn me...).

If your SIL is decent and you like her I would simply try to forge a relationship with her that is completely independent of your PIL and avoid mentioning them at all.

Maybe just narcissism doesn't fit right but vulnerable/covert narcissism might?

Your DH, like mine, probably would benefit a lot from counselling but mine basically refuses - he had it by proxy via my counsellor though!