Navigating difficult family dynamic and protecting DD

[WhiteJeans07]

Name changed as this is pretty outing. I'm struggling with knowing how to deal with some difficult family dynamics (where there seem to be no winners, whatever I do). It's long, sorry.

DDad (71) has terminal cancer and likely not all that long to live. We're waiting to see if he can have anymore treatment other than palliative care but it seems unlikely. DMum (65) is losing her sight. This summer, her Mum (95) moved in with them.

This was something I was really unhappy about. My Nan has bullied and dominated my DM all her life. Her needs were often put over mine and my DSis as children, simply because the consequences of not prioritising her were endless harassment and power plays. She will tell you the sky is green to get what she wants and uses money to control people. She has no-one else other than my parents, my sister and me and DH because nobody else will have anything to do with her.

DM is now carer to both DDad and Nan and struggling. We've been going over to help where we can and so they can see my DD, (almost 3). I want to spend time with my DDad and for DD to know him. DDad is going to have to give up driving soon and Nan is disabled and can't be left alone for very long, so we have to see them at their house. She is now trying to stop DMum leaving the house on her own to go shopping. It's a bloody nightmare.

I've always been wary of my DD having much to do with my Nan because she is so toxic, but now she lives with my parents it seems unavoidable. She's already trying to buy DD's love with gifts and get a hold on her this way, just like she used to with me.

I went over to their house with a good friend a few weeks ago, who knows the situation but was very kind to my Nan, who basically blanked her. Now she's insinuating that my friend is trying to have an affair with DH... and I'm just running out of patience with it all. I'd like to cut her off, but I can't while she lives there.

So the long and the short of it- how to I manage this, while ensuring I support DM and get to spend time with my dying DDad?

I've already told my DM that anymore trouble and I'll have to stop going round there with DD. She said how sorry she is about Nan/the way she behaves and that she understands, but looked so sad 😢. It's a horrible situation.

I've already told my DM that anymore trouble and I'll have to stop going round there withDD
Why say that to your mum? It's your Nan that needs to behave

Send Nan to a care home...

Nan hasn't said any of this to my face. If I confront her (and believe me I'd love to) she will make my DM's life so much worse. She's not above faking illness etc to make people worry about her. She's manipulative in the extreme.

She started off a rehabilitation care home with a view to going home eventually, but hated it so DM agreed to take her once it became obvious that she can no longer take care of herself. House has been adapted. She refuses carers.

2nd send DNan to a care home. Give your poor DM some peace in her life.

I desperately wanted her to go into a home 😥this isn't the life I wanted for either of my parents, especially with my DDad being so poorly. It's a nightmare. They won't put her in a home though. My DM is very deep in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) cycle with her.

I don't really have much of a solution at all I am afraid (apart from I would protect your DD and just not take her into the same room as your Nan maybe? Negative reinforcement for your gran to say 'I withold access because you behave like a twat' Is that do able?) but really I just wanted to say well done to you.

You are disrupting the cycle of one person bullying and controlling their daughters and granddaughters that seems to be firmly placed in your family of origin's script - this is a pretty significant and powerful thing to do. You must have balls of steel and a good grasp on human behaviour and its consequences. Changing a family system is hard work. You deserve praise for trying to get to grips with it.

OK, this stands out. Nan hasn't said any of this to my face.

So who is telling you what your nan is supposedly saying? Your mum? Your sister? Your dad?

This dynamic of passing on the gift-wrapped poison is extremely damaging.

Thank you, I really appreciate that. I've done a lot of work on myself and continue to do so. I know my parents loved me dearly but we're impaired by their own dysfunctional and difficult childhoods. I'm determined to make sure my DD doesn't suffer as I have and grows up with healthy boundaries.

Oh I totally get why you say this, I should have explained myself here. My DSis is staying with me for a few days and while I was making dinner I overheard my DM on a video call.

She was worrying that Nan might have said something to my friend when she visited to make her uncomfortable, as they were alone in the room together for a minute or so. I came to ask why she thought that so she explained.

My friend hasn't said anything to me, but that definitely doesn't mean Nan didn't try anything. She knows I've got a lot going on so might have chosen to say nothing.

You're doing really well. Difficult though it is, you are rising above the family dynamics.
Ignore the flying monkeys - if your Nan doesn't say it to your face, behave as if it hasn't been said.
Keep your DD close and no one else can intervene. Don't take her with you if you're concerned. Unfortunately, her visits are more for your DF's benefit as she is going to be too young to remember much of this. My Mum died when DD was 8, they were very close at the time and spent a lot of time together but DD doesn't really remember very much about her.
Support your DM but ultimately her decisions, however poor, are hers to make. If she is sadly losing her sight she won't be able to carry on looking after your Nan anyway. That's going to become obvious at some point.
Take care of yourself - this sounds like hard work and emotionally draining.

"My DM is very deep in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) cycle with her".

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles. This is precisely why your mother took in her own toxic mother as she did. Her mother has not changed in all the years since and your mother continues to play the same roles to her.

I would look into requesting a needs assessment here for all three adults here from their council Social Services. Its all going to come crashing down around them soon enough.

I do think the time will come when I'll be forced to contact adult social services. Whether they'll do anything is another matter, they were basically useless when we dealt with them last time when deciding what to do about Nan. Any support they offered has come to nothing. Prior to that, if DM isn't coping I will contact the hospice who are in charge of DDad's care so at least 1 person is sorted. I'm keeping a close eye on the situation.

DD is always going to be my top priority. I'm going to keep a more obvious distance between them at the next couple of visits, though she is always supervised at all times. Ultimately, if I believe the visits need to stop I won't take her anymore.

Feel a bit heartbroken for poor Dad though. He never wanted his MIL to move in and desperately wants to spend time with his granddaughter. My sister rarely visits anymore because of my Nan and I know he misses her too 😢

I just wish there was a solution that wasn't "put her in a home" because as that stands it's not happening any time soon.

Let's be blunt here, @WhiteJeans07. If HorribleGrandma** is 95, how long has she got left, realistically? Does she really have long enough to get her claws into your nearly 3 year old daughter?

Advice from an old trooper here:

Tell yourself and tell everyone else, in respect of the utterings of HorribleGrandma, that you don't want to hear it. And don't hear it. A simple and polite, 'No thanks, I don't believe it's helpful to talk about that in the slightest'.

Don't leave your daughter alone with HG. Pick her up and remove her to another room as necessary. (Would your dad like to spend time with you both in his bedroom or another room, playing a game or with toys? My poorly old dad was great with games. He rested in bed and we 'gathered round'. If that's his only private space, use it.)

Ignore her. (HorribleGrandma, not your DD.) Just ... ignore her. Say a hello, and then grey rock her.

So let her fake her illnesses. Maybe an ambulance can cart her off and staff can assess her in a rebab unit again. The current set-up is not working.

Revisit that Care Act assessment for all three of them. Social Services will drop you like a hot potato the second one of says you can do some caring. I suspect this is what happened last time - your mother effectively put herself forward as the magical carer (as @AttilaTheMeerkat rightly says, this is her 'family role' in the familial script). So, this time you have to take charge of the narrative and say to SS that no, none of them are capable - and that you absolutely cannot and will not do it. Be firm. One wobble and they'll wash their hands of you.

And have a think about what your 'family role' is with your mum, going forward. This is your mum's mess really, but you're having to deal with it all. Have a ponder on that.

**Hope you don't mind the nickname. I'm a massive fan of Friday Night Dinner.

Thank you @AutumnCrow. I love the Friday Night Dinner reference, I'm a huge fan too. I don't know why I didn't think to call her Horrible Grandma myself 😂

Sadly, I think this is all about to be pushed down the list of problems. DDad is very ill now, DM called this evening to tell me he is feeling worse. He has an appointment with his consultant and the hospice in the next few days but I think we know where this is going 😥

I'm going to put HG and her antics out of my head for now and focus on DDad. I'm not going to allow her to steal our possible last weeks/months together.

Hi, resurrecting this thread to see if anyone can help.

Nan (now known as Horrible Grandma for his reason) is making things very difficult for my parents. DDad is very poorly now, more bad news received yesterday. HG is trying to make everything all about her, pretending to be ill and generally being a gigantic pain in the arse.

I think with the way things are going, she definitely needs to go into respite care. My goal is that she goes into long term care. Does anyone have any idea how we can make that happen? She definitely won't want to leave and will put up a fight.

I know some people will judge me for this but I can't watch her make my Dad's remaining time worse and destroy my Mum's mental health. She is a manipulative and abusive person.

Reading previous helpful replies I will refer to care act and SS. But how do they make her go if she doesn't want to?

Contact SS, your mum needs to make it clear she will no longer care for HG.
As long as your mum keeps caring for her SS won't do a thing.

You may need to have an honest, private conversation with your mum. Tell her that, long-term, it’s up to her whether or not she cares for HG. But, very sadly, your Ddad is dying and HG needs to go into respite care so he can have the end of life care that he needs and deserves. She needs to tell SS that she cannot cope with both of them and that she will not be separated from her husband when he goes into a hospice so that she can care for HG.

Surely if she's in your parents' house, they can legally evict her.

Thanks everyone. I've made an urgent referral to the local charity who the GP says we need to go through first and told them she has to go, permanently. If I get nowhere within a few days, I'll contact adult services. If this doesn't work, there's another agency who have already offered respite care- we'll take it and work out what to do from there.

DM and DDad are both on the same page that this can't continue. I don't think he has all that long so this needs to happen soon. I'd much rather just be spending time with DDad without all this mad shit going on.