How to be friends with a guy in this situation?

[halloweed]

My partner and I worked in the same office, where we met, and we had a good friend there let's call him Jay. Jay and I sat next to each other and we had a great friendship and would chat all day. Jay and my DP got on very well. Jay has a partner Lacy who is kind but due to anxiety doesn't talk much.

Jay and DP would go out for drinks all the time, I was TTC so didn't join.

I would say I was much closer to Jay than DP was but we have never hung out 1 on 1 outside of work where as Jay has with DP.

We started to do double dates but I found that Jay and DP would dominate conversation talking about cars all the time and I would try and talk to Lacy about accountancy (not that this interests me) but because that's what Jay said is her most comfortable topic .. but I did not get very far. I don't dislike Lacy but I have nothing in common. I told my DP not to bring up cars as it excludes us but it hasn't helped.

Jay and I bumped into each other in a cafe last weekend and we chatted for hours and I felt I had a friend back. We don't work together any more.

I really want a friendship with Jay independent of Lacy and DP. Because Jay is a guy would this be weird? My DP has no issue with this but I don't want to hurt Lacy's feelings and I don't want to be weird. How do I approach this?

I would be surprised if Lucy was nt upset, she probably already feels excluded. Is it worth upsetting her ? Can’t you all go out together?

Admit it, you fancy Jay don't you.

Secretly. That's why you don't want Lacy or your DP to be involved.

Far too many excuses and "validations" as to why they shouldn't be involved otherwise.

@DatingDinosaur absolutely not😂

Seriously!

She had a good friend, who her partner took over and his GF isnt forthcoming in the friendship.

I encouraged Jay to be friend with DP because DP was lacking in friends where I had a lot. I don't have so many now and would like to know how I can get this friend back.

I get where you are coming from OP but unfortunately I think out of respect for his GF, you should not hang one on one with him.

Yeah men and women should be able to be friends but frequently they cannot, and unfortunately you often don't find out which men cannot until it's too late, causing all kinds of mess and upset.

Yeah. Don't be greedy OP! If you have lots of friends then you can let this one go, out of respect for his GF who clearly is an introvert and might be intimidated by your friendship with her BF.

I'm inclined to agree if double dates doesn't work then leave the friendship to dp

Still go on double dates but tell the men to talk about more inclusive stuff?

Just because Lacy is introverted doesn't mean she's necessarily insecure about her partner's friendships. She may be perfectly fine with him having female friends.

Also completely understand where OP is coming from in terms of the friendship's dynamics being changed. Really, the problem is your DP - when you went out on double dates there should have been more effort made to talk about things everyone was interested in (or at least to limit the car chat), especially when you specifically requested this. It's quite weird to go out with another couple and only find yourself talking to the other woman.

What is your friendship with Jay based on other than previously working together? What are your common interests? There are a few friendships (both men and women) I have that are fairly independent of DP - not deliberately but the people I'll go to a rap gig with, say, because DP doesn't like rap that much.

In terms of whether it's appropriate and what's appropriate going forward - well, the lines you shouldn't cross are fairly obvious IMO and not in fact easy to cross. You know what they are!

I'd let the platonic friendship with Jay resume naturally and use your instincts to determine if anything is "off". Be mindful of your partner's feelings (don't intentionally hide anything from him) but if he says he's happy, believe him and trust him to tell you if something bothers him later on. If Jay's a decent partner he'll be keeping Lacy in the loop too and listening to her if she's upset about the friendship for any reason. If you and Lacy still see each other/talk one on one I might mention to her that you've been seeing more of Jay or rekindled the friendship or whatever, but otherwise I'd leave it to Jay.

Re the going out as a foursome: if your partner and Jay are really passionate about something and don't have other friends who share that interest, it'll be very easy for them to get carried away and forget that others are excluded from the conversation. In my group of friends there'd be no hesitation with someone piping up with something like "Hey! No shop talk, we're on holiday!" or "Nooooo! No Brexit tonight!" and everyone laughs and someone changes the subject to something of mutual interest.

Finally, Lacy sounds like an enigma to everyone except (I hope) Jay. Perhaps she's happy to sit and daydream while you all talk. Perhaps she'd rather be home alone watching Netflix but Jay doesn't want to be the third wheel and she goes for his sake. Perhaps she has anxiety; perhaps she's just quiet. Unless you think she's in an abusive relationship with Jay (which is a different matter and requires a different approach), I'd let her decide and say what works for her. Keep inviting your partner along with you and Jay when it feels appropriate, and let Jay do the same with Lacy, but don't overthink it if one or both decline.

I am not worried about Jay fancying me or crossing the line there it is completely platonic. He really isn't my type and I don't think I am remotely his. Jay and I have lots of interests in common but it would be leaving DP and Lacy out to bring these up on double dates. When we're alone we can chat all day. I have tried to tell DP to keep chat more inclusive but my DP is an alpha character and is only interested in Jay when were doing double dates and although he tries it always ends up on cars and politics.

I don't have many friends anymore after COVID so I would really like this friend back. I do understand that it could look weird to Lacy but from all the time I've known her she hasn't been the jealous type.

I really don’t see why it has to be a “its him or me” situation at all OP.

Why can’t your DP have Jay as a friend as well? Let them do man talk on the double-dates and if your DP and Lacy don’t have a problem with you and Jay spending time one on one together then what is the issue here?

Who says you have to be a foursome? The two of them can be friends, the two of you can be friends... Just don't overdo it, Jay doesn't have to be your bestie to meet with every week.

However, sounds like Lacy is just a bit shy and quiet... Would it be worth you 2 hanging out 1-2-1 and actually seeing what common ground you might have?

I've had something similar twice... One guy friend's missus is very quiet and lacks in confidence, and she isn't really comfortable with us hanging out, whether it's double dates or as 3. So I do talk to her bf one-on-one (she knows about it and sometimes comments on something I may have said, or I might wish her happy birthday through him and she says thanks etc). However we truly don't really click with her, so it is more me and her bf sometimes catching up. Now I might try her again but it's just not a natural friendship. I'm just unwilling to end a long-standing friendship with the guy just because I have little in common with their partner.

Second situation was, I was very friendly with a guy at work and he suggested we go on double dates. I honestly doubted I'd have much in common with his gf and worried she might be a tad jealous and not warm to me. So we went for a coffee beforehand with her and got on really great, ended up having very regular coffees since. We did the double date but a few years later it's actually me and her who are friends and I don't talk to her bf that often.

So maybe give Lacy another shot outside the public couples' setting where the boys take over the conversation. Shy and quiet people tend to be better 1-2-1 a lot of the time, and it takes them a while to open up in a group. If not then at least you've tried.

It doesn't have to be me or him, I'm just not sure how I can initiate a 1 on 1 friendship with Jay when we've never meet up individually before. He may assume Lacy is invited or that it's a double date, or even may be uncomfortable.

I would rather DP met up with Jay and separately I met up with Jay.

I have had many many double dates with Lacy and if you don't talk to her she won't say a word the whole time. She will turn down every 1 on 1 invite I give her and she has never asked me.

It's just how do I pursue a 1 on 1 relationship with Jay

I think since you bumped into each other at the cafe you can always message him to say how nice it was to have a one on one catch up and you must do it again sometime. See if he goes for it. If he automatically includes Lacy then then accept that it is the way he wants it. Hopefully he enjoyed it as much too and will want to meet just the two of you.