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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this poor behaviour or incompatible or fine or grief?

14 replies

Teaandtoast35 · 16/10/2022 23:20

Thank you in advance for any “votes” either way. I’m finding it hard to figure out. And thank you for reading. It feels so mixed up to me.

Option 1.It’s fine: my partner is lovely, suits me well in some ways (what we want from life, similar values, interests), is kind, progressive, books date nights, supportive regarding my career, dreams big for us, is a great kisser, lovely looking, and there have been times where I’ve felt very certain he was “the one” (I don’t believe in “one” person, but still, that kind of feeling). He has always had some issues because of his upbringing, but he’s made progress and will continue to.

2.Incompatible: I’ve always been independent. We’ve always had problems that I hoped we would work out, but the last few years our emotions and energy have been taken up by recurrent mc, baby loss, and grief. No living children. Currently on TTC break after recent mc. I’m giving myself this time to deal w issues and think about what I want. We have talked and he agrees to work on them. But he always says things and they don’t happen re: sex life. Always says “yes! I’d love more!” but doesn’t initiate and won’t say anything if we haven’t for a long time. Socialising — “I’d LOVE to have people over” — never, ever books it. House is quiet always. I love people. If I had my “dream life”, I’d have people drop by every day (I WFH, so enjoy company). I love sex. I wonder if it’s because he really doesn’t want these things, but just says yes to please me? These (sex and socialising) are 2 of 4 issues. The others below.

3.Controlling — the other two issues are 1. if he is anxious or stressed (eg he has to prep for a work thing, not anything more crazy), he will tut at me, look at me like I’m in the way, walk around talking over the tv “right that’s ready, that’s done”, speak only impatiently to me, generally create an energy that’s not great. This happens often. It’s never a very dark atmosphere but it leaves me quiet and alone and feeling a bit pants to be tutted at. 2. He says borderline/subtle controlling things every day — like admonishing “oh I wish you had just…” / guilt “oh didn’t you do that?” / blame “who did this to my jeans?” (He did!). Lately I wonder if this behaviour I think is just “what he grew up with” is — even if he learnt it as a child — actually on purpose to get me to do whatever he wants in that moment. This is subtle but all the time and I wonder — should I be bringing children into the tension this blaming and admonishing creates? Is he going to blame, admonish, and tut at them once the glow of having them wears off a bit? And even if he doesn’t, I don’t want them to see him do that to me!

4th option, grief: We lost our baby (stillbirth at 7m) last year. We moved out of the city for a while because it was too much. We are very isolated. We have always had these issues, right from the beginning, although I think they are worse bc of this last year of pretty dark grief. We have been trying for children so long. We were so happy in our first few pregnancies, and I can imagine how happy we would have been if we hadnt lost them. Not perfect certainly, but not so stuck in our patterns. Him particularly—he is so concerned with his routine and I think it’s partly because we don’t have the new routine we both want so much so he’s concentrating on other things. Circumstances can be so hard on a relationship. It’s really hard to understand what is bad because of our circumstances and what is bad really.

Any opinions / thoughts / votes appreciated v much.

OP posts:
beenwhereyouare · 17/10/2022 06:33

I don't have any answers for you, but I wanted to say how sorry I am for your loss(es).

You might want to keep in mind that grief affects everyone differently- what one person finds acceptable behavior may be a huge "NO" for someone else. How someone handles grief evolves over time which may be why grieving people are often told to put off making big life decisions during the first year or more.

CrispyNoodles · 17/10/2022 06:37

I'm sorry for your loss OP.

I agree that until you have processed the grief then you should hold off from making any big decisions.

Have you thought about counselling?

www.bacp.co.uk/

Teaandtoast35 · 17/10/2022 20:21

@beenwhereyouare @CrispyNoodles

Thank you both, that’s really kind of you to say. I’m sure you’re both right. It’s so hard to understand what of his behaviour AND my feelings are grief.

Im hoping for some more comments — maybe someone will have a similar experience. I don’t know anyone neutral to talk to. My friends don’t see us and my mum is great usually but she takes the approach with my relationships that it’s her role to support them to work, so won’t discuss it.

Thank you for that link, Crispy. I think it would be worth booking a session, so that’s what I’ll do this week. Anyone else — would v much appreciate any thoughts. I can’t really get a handle on how this all sounds. Brain feels so full and confused. And I think the pain of our losses has made me think — is this pain (4 years of losses now; 5 ish years left of fertility more if lucky but presume more losses involved in trying - and I can’t stop trying, because I know I want living children so much) going to be my life? And if so, should I be thinking of trying to find someone to have great sex with and to laugh with in a way I’m not doing now (and with the sex - it’s not bad at all, but we never clicked super well), so that at least life isn’t so hard?

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 17/10/2022 20:26

How come it has to be one of those things, and not a bit of each?

Trying to decide why something is happening detracts from what really matters: how do you feel about it all?

B1pbop · 17/10/2022 20:35

Yes why the labels? It sounds a bit of everything to be honest.

is there a reason your social life has to depend on him? If one of you likes socialising and the other doesn’t, try doing it out of the house? Meet friends in ‘third spaces’ - cafe, pub. Make the most of being able to go out before you have children!

Ofcourseshecan · 17/10/2022 22:53

I’m so sorry you’re having such a bad time with TTC and suffering baby death, OP. I suspect that is the main problem. I hope others here can help more.

One thing - you say I’m giving myself this time to deal w issues and think about what I want. We have talked and he agrees to work on them. But he always says things and they don’t happen re: sex life. Always says “yes! I’d love more!” but doesn’t initiate and won’t say anything if we haven’t for a long time. Socialising — “I’d LOVE to have people over” — never, ever books it. … I love sex. I wonder if it’s because he really doesn’t want these things, but just says yes to please me?

Instead of wanting him to, could you try booking the things you’d like to do, after agreeing a date and time with him? He may be feeble at organising, but willing to go along with you.

I hope things work out for you both.

Teaandtoast35 · 18/10/2022 00:36

Hi @Ofcourseshecan yes good idea, I will book things in. In the area where we moved we don’t have many friends, but booking trips into the city is possible and I could book my family coming over. I do think if we had stayed in the city, I would just (as I used to) have people over all the time and he would get used to it, I’d hope. Time now I’m feeling a little better to just get something in the diary, I think.

@B1pbop I just wanted to be clear — and I understand why you’d word it like that, but to me — I do have children. They are not living, but they are resting nearby and we spend time visiting them and loving them. I do know what you mean though. It’s been a hard year - two of our mcs were this summer, grief is just hard in terms of seeing people (friends are happy and all have young babies/I can’t be around young babies and am finding life hard), when I’m pregnant I have HG, and when we were ttc I wasn’t drinking. But we are on a ttc break for autumn and you’re right — I could go out now and see friends more. I organised a dinner out with friends last week. First try at it. It was great! I agree, I need to do more things away from him.

@Watchkeys ooo… this felt very true. How do I feel … I think that’s complicated because of the grief. Meaning I feel like I just want my daughter here. I mostly think about her. And apart from that I want to be busy with work, because it reminds me of who I am (outside being a pregnant woman who throws up and a post-partum woman who grieves). Overall I feel trapped and disappointed and sad and a bit numb — but I suppose that’s part of my post. Some of that is grief and some of that (you’re right, it’s a mix) is related (I think) to my relationship.

Maybe the answer is a combo of your reply and some of the replies above — process the grief a bit more and then ask myself how I “feel about our living situation” rather than what I “think this is about”.

The problem there is I’ve been grieving and losing babies for a long time and I want living children so I’m not sure when this grief will be processed (ie we might lose more) and how to feel good in my relationship in the meantime / or get out if it really is bad. I’m in a fog.

OP posts:
2bazookas · 18/10/2022 01:41

You sound like a very aware, mature thoughtful person. The way you consider and address your husbands problems (and your own) is so different from most we see on MN.

When everything's gone so badly wrong, and you're in the darkest place, try not to exhaust your heart dreading what might be going to happen next month, next year. That will unfold later.

I don't think you're in the right place to rescue your husband, poor man. Let go of his struggle. Start with you. You are in deep water and drowning in grief.

If anybody is to find counselling helpful and productive, it's surely someone with your special qualities. You will find your way forward, and I wish you all the best.

JestersTear · 18/10/2022 01:54

Please don't underestimate the grief. It can affect all aspects of life, even when you're not aware of it. It rumbles on in the background and makes all things difficult. And for longer than you might expect. Be kind to yourself.
Experiment with socialising, just you, and see how it feels.
You say that your partner never initiates sex, but what is his reaction when you do?

Teaandtoast35 · 18/10/2022 20:37

Thank you @2bazookas, what you said was really kind. Can I ask, what do you mean “let go of his struggle” practically? I’m finding it difficult, eg to insist on space. He says “yes I understand” and then … I don’t know if he forgets or ignores me or is just thinking about himself, but he will then call and leave a voice note and text about a task all within the space of an hour. It’s not that I think this is terrible, but I’m overwhelmed and I find him on top of everything too much. Thank you again for the advice. I’ve made an appointment with a counsellor for next week.

@JestersTear I think grief is a huge part of it. It also makes it overwhelming to even begin to think about “us”. He used to either go for it but say “I don’t like that” at some point (there was always something) or flinch or flick me away if he didn’t want to. This year, ttc, he has been much better, very positive and “going for it”. We talked about not being lazy… sometimes I think he doesn’t have a boundary about what it’s okay to do to make people do what you want. Ie he didn’t want to have sex, and it was okay to send me away by acting like I was an annoyance.

I’m sure that sounds bad, but it’s always felt like there are a few behaviours that are really hard, but he as a person is nice. It’s a lot at the moment. I’ve a feeling that he might be worse than usual as well as me struggling more than normal.

Thanks again for any thoughts!

OP posts:
Teaandtoast35 · 14/07/2023 13:34

I just wanted to update this for anyone reading. I broke up with this partner, and with distance I can see he really wasn’t good to me. He was much nicer and more understanding than I thought he would be when I broke up with him and he hasn’t tried to get back together. I’ve been able to really take care of myself and I feel much more stable, secure, healthy, and happy. I am much much happier than I was.

An additional thought: Im not anti a relationship in the future but I am starting to see relationships as more of a lifestyle option… and there are other options. I’ve made my life about work I’m passionate about and also trying to have living children, which is an ongoing struggle and very difficult, but in some ways easier without also having to cope with being treated poorly.

Good luck to anyone reading this post and thinking of leaving a relationship that is making you unhappy. It feels like a fog when you are in it, but the view is much clearer from here. I also recommend reading Why Does He Do That? as it clarified a lot for me about the controlling behaviour.

OP posts:
Hardly123 · 15/07/2023 00:42

I'm so glad you left and are feeling better.

It sounds like the relationship wasn't right.

I am so sorry for your losses. Good luck with your journey to have living children. It sounds like it is something that could happen for you and you still have time.

I have been in a very slightly similar situation. A relationship where there are some controlling behaviours from my partner and I worry about bringing children into it. We ttc for a while with no luck and I asked to pause as I was worried about his behaviour. What is difficult is that the controlling behaviour is very low level, but it sort of is this constant sense he disapproves of me being my own person, making my own decisions. He is not completely overt about it but there is an undercurrent and sometimes he becomes angry but never shouts or gets physical, just says hurtful things.

I have recently bought the book from the freedom program to read through.

Can I ask a little about the sort of behaviours that happened in your relationship please? I just wonder if they might help me understand my situation.

I am really glad you're doing better and sorry again for your losses.

Watchkeys · 15/07/2023 09:10

Glad to hear your update, @Teaandtoast35 Flowers

Watchkeys · 15/07/2023 09:14

this constant sense he disapproves of me being my own person, making my own decisions

That's not low level @Hardly123. The behaviours may be subtle, but 'constant' isn't just high level, it's far far too much.

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