Can I have a relationship with my narcissistic son?

[Sloes]

I'm a long time lurker here and I have sought advice through many posts before, but feel the need to post my own.

I have a grown up son who shows all of the traits of narcissism. As a boy he was kind and gentle but he was always close to my abusive ex husband (his father) who has narcissistic traits himself. He watched my husband shout at me regularly, ridicule my weight, my cooking, my appearance. He also drank too much.

I finally found the courage to leave my ex husband when my son was a teenager but it seems the damage has already been done. My son is a very jealous person, very self absorbed and frankly, nasty. He is very much like his father. He is my youngest child of 3.

When I speak to him he never asks how I am and will talk endlessly about how much money he's earned at work that month, he's very money oriented and materialistic- I didn't bring him up to be like that so it always comes as a surprise to hear him talk the way he does. He will tell me about people he's not happy with, swearing as he does so, he will call people c*s. If things don't go his way I have to listen to endless sweary rants about things. If I dare point out other sides of the story he will shout at me and tell me I just want to put him down all the time and slam the phone down on me then give me the silent treatment for weeks until he needs me to hear his next drama. He does not behave like this in the outside world and I feel like his emotional punch bag.

If I don't meet his expectations which seem impossible, he will text me calling me a "wank mum" "selfish bitch". And lots of other things. He will then give me the silent treatment for weeks, sometimes months if life is going well for him and deny me contact with my grandchildren which breaks my heart.

The relationship I have with my son makes me miserable. I live in anxiety of what he'll say or punish me with next. I often feel like he's testing me to see how much I will do for him, if I'm prepared to go over and above for him. He's jealous of his siblings and often accuses me of loving them more than him. I don't but because of his behaviour I enjoy spending time with him much less than the others and I'm able to have healthy, consistent relationships with my grandchildren with my other kids. My other children know what he's like and have an emotionally distant relationship with him.

I feel like his puppet. Never knowing if I'm allowed to be part of his life or not and then when his life falls apart or things happen, he always expects me to go and pick up the pieces. I am devastated that he has turned out like this but also, can see that staying with his father so long has caused this. I should have left him long before I did. He is much like his father was.

I read so many threads here about how you can't have a relationship with a narcissist etc but this man is my son and I feel like I should be there for him regardless, that I brought him into the world and so need to be there for him, he clearly needs help, however this relationship is making me ill. If I speak to him about his treatment of me, he screams over me, slams the phone down or even tells me to get out of his house. He is 35 years old. His wife reminds me of myself all those years ago with his father and I can see that history is repeating itself and I feel responsible. He's my son, but I know I can't go on like this. He is not a good husband either.

What do I do?

I think at the very least you need boundaries with him.

So something like “I’m finding this conversation very draining why don’t we talk about whatever” might be worth a try to see if your emotions matter at all, if you get dismissive or attempts to point out your failings when you express any emotion then I’d move onto phase 2 below.

Google disarming a narcissist and grey rocking. Narcissists are absolutely exhausting socially and emotionally a lot of the time because they are so emotionally immature. You have my sympathy.

Thank you.
I already know that phase 2 will be required. If I dared say anything like that to him, I'd be met with a torrent of abuse. It's like I'm not a person with my own life and feelings.

What do you do?

You let him go.

He lets you go when you are not giving him what he needs. If he feels criticised he cuts you off. It's what people do nowadays I'm afraid.

It's who he is and he's not going to change. It sounds like you don't want him you want his children. You can't have one without the other.

I bet he is aware that he is like his dad and that you may leave him like you did his dad. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

My heart goes out to you as it's an impossible situation.

No
Because you are not a person you are a resource.
If you are of use in some way he may treat you with some decency but if not then you don’t exist until he needs something.
You can take the crumbs and it will be ok as long as you don’t expect more or challenge him

'He's my son'. And yet he abuses you. That's even less reason to forgive him and keep a relationship. He's a disgusting bully and if you keep forgiving him, you provide thd tole model for the power women in his life. The expectation for them to do the same.

Heaven forbid he has kids with the poor woman he is married to. Then the cycle repeats itself.

As an abused woman yourself. Your thoughts should be with her. Not this....monster, you still call a son. Stop making excuses for beasts. I know its hard but it's time to take some responsibility. Finqlly show your other kids that abuse is not OK.amd should never be tolerated.
Show his wife that she doesn't have to stay qnd be abused.

Blood is not what matters. The hunan soul is what matters. You see his and it is...evil. let's face it. So, stop. Stop pandering to him. Stop denying it. And get as far away from everyone like him as possible.

That's a tough one OP because your son could be:

• someone who has inherited your partner's personality traits and who is and always will be a narcissist

• someone who acts like a narcissist because he was made to grow up in an abusive household and absorbed and copied his father's behaviour. That might sound harsh but people who grow up abusive environments often replicate the abuse. The fact is that you let him grow up in that environment as a child and teen and his drunk, abusive father taught him to be a bully. Now he is repeating the pattern with you and with his own partner. He might not be a born narcissist. Just a child who was raised in an abusive environment.

So obviously you need to protect yourself and tell him his behaviour is unacceptable and cut contact if needed.

But there is also a chance that if this learned behaviour your son could be helped to change through counselling. But only he can make the decision to chance.

I dunno stepping onto the journey of trying to get a narcissist to change is a pretty tough journey. The males in my family are very narcissistic to greater or lesser degrees. I have learned from them that my only job in the world is to serve their needs as far as they are concerned. I spent years trying to get them to face up to their serious (criminal in some cases) issues. Complete waste of effort. Boundaries and strict emotional detachment or NC are the only ways to deal with narcissists unfortunately because they are so resistant to change.

No one is born a narcissist (psychopaths are born, sociopaths and narcissists are made). It forms in childhood.

But it will never magically unform.If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a duck. He isn't 'imitating his dad's behaviour'. He.is.his.dad. exactly the same thing. Children imitate behaviour. This is a grown man being full on abusive.

Sure, we may repeat unhealthy patterns we have seen in relationships. But that a deviation from the norm of who we are. This guy...is rotten and acts rotten. Can't blame daddy for that anymore. Not at his age.

Being met with a torrent of abuse doesn’t mean you have to stand there and take it.

stand up for yourself, contact his wife and make sure she knows you’re there for her and let him do his childish manipulation bullshit.

stop waiting for him to make his moves. Make your own. Establish boundaries and tell him you’re not his punching bag. If he can’t be civil then you’re simply not interested.

wank mum… that doesn’t even mean anything!

well apart from the fact that perhaps it’s why he’s a complete wanker… <shrug>

boundaries! Life on your terms and take control back. He has no right to treat anyone this way.

I fear my son is like this too. He is a teen and living in my house but he has zero respect for anybody. It's so depressing. His father was like this and it's why I left his father. He's seen nothing but generosity and kindness and he would happily walk all over me, I'm a resource to be plundered. I can't wait til he moves out. And I think about how I could engineer his moving out if he doesn't do that of his own accord. I would sell up and move to a place without a bedroom for him. Not til he's about 20 though. I have to put up with him til then I suppose.

I had wished that nurture would prevail but he is so like his father. UTTERLY selfish, not open to reason, other people are resources to plunder.

Are you able to pay to see a therapist? Someone to help you understand your thoughts on all of this. It's very difficult to see a bigger picture all on your own.

I suspect that you have to step right back. Maybe just sent texts and cards. You can't let an adult treat you like that

He's always going to find reasons to strike at you verbally. If you don't feel ready to go NC, which I get, you need to disengage more, general responses, umhum/that sounds hard/I see xyz made you unhappy and so on.

Get referred for some counselling (can take a while to get to see someone), to help you deal with the effect he's having on you. You might find one day that you feel ready to step away from him completely, if not you need to minimise the effect he's having on you, disengaging, talking through the guilt you feel, talking about what he's done, sometimes can really help and if not you can work on learning how to set boundaries and coping skills to reduce the impact he's having on you.

Thank you all for your advice.
I really do feel I need to step away from him for the timr being but feel guilty for feeling that way.

Kick him out.

Having any type of normal balanced civilised relationship is completely impossible with a narcissist. Its not even worth an ounce of your energy and emotions. Its futile. I'm sorry.