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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Red flags? Friends dp ringing alarm bells

18 replies

Spritzinthesun · 08/09/2022 11:10

Hi,

A friend of mine has a new baby dd. Only a few weeks old. She's absolutely besotted by her, but as you can imagine is absolutely exhausted and I have been trying to help where I can, so probably seeing her a little more than usual.

I don't know her dp well at all and have only met him properly a couple of times, but she talks about him a lot and some of the things she says about him gives me a bad feeling.

So she says things like "I hope dp takes pity on me and helps out tonight" and "he's just not good with the stress and lack of sleep with a new baby. It's not his thing". She always gets his permission before we go out. She talks about how he won't "allow" things and how he'll be cross if she hasn't remembered to do x, y or z chores. I remember once she suddenly realised that she hadn't done a load of washing for him and made this sort of child like wince and said "whoops, I nearly dropped the ball there. Nevermind, I'll do it now. He won't mind as long as it's done by tonight". I never see fear in her eyes. She says it like it's normal, but in a sort of trance like state. It's very hard to explain.

He's also made her give up things she really loves because he finds them irritating. When I ask why, she just says "xxx just really didn't like it so..." Again, in this sort of matter of fact way.

Do these read as red flags to you?

OP posts:
Spritzinthesun · 08/09/2022 11:59

Just giving this a bump

OP posts:
FuckFuckGo · 08/09/2022 12:03

Yes.

How long have they been together?

Redannie118 · 08/09/2022 12:11

He sounds like my ex DH. Very much abuse. He refused to even change a nappy even though i had just had a traumatic c section, pre eclampsia and nearly died. God help me if he got home from work and house wasnt spotless or baby was crying. He even shouted at the doctor who had to come to the house when I collapsed with exhaustion from a horrific throat infection and told him he couldnt possibly help with baby as he worked. The whole thing left me with horrific PND which i only survived thanks to massive doses of Prozac.
Best thing you can do at the min is practically support your friend. Help in anyway you can. Talk to her and listen. I wish I had had that, I had no one. When shes feeling a bit stronger point out her this is not normal, its abuse and in fact her life would be way easier if she left him- mine was.

Spritzinthesun · 08/09/2022 12:47

@FuckFuckGo , about 3 years, but things moved very quickly, I think because my friend always knew she wanted dc and was concerned about waiting much longer, due to her age. I think she compromised A LOT because of this actually.

When I've met him, I don't get bad vibes particularly, but I don't feel that warmth. I feel like my friend has this sort of rose tinted view of their relationship. She's a clever, modern, independent woman, but when she speaks about him, she goes a bit 'oh men, what can you do ey 🤷‍♀️'

@Redannie118 I'm so sorry. Sounds absolutely horrific. So glad you're out of it now.

I think I already have pointed it out actually, but in a subtle way. I think she knows I'm concerned though. I can't laugh along or agree when she says how it's just the way he is. I think a proper sit down, I'm really concerned type conversation would be totally wrong right now, but I honestly do think she's almost pretending to herself that this is a normal relationship and he's just a typical 'bloke'.

OP posts:
justaladyLOL · 08/09/2022 12:57

It is not any of your business unless she wants to talk about it and says he is upset

FuckFuckGo · 08/09/2022 12:58

Is this her DP’s first DC? I agree with PP, to wait until she’s a bit stronger and point out that it’s not OK for him to leave her to shoulder all the responsibility and that he is potentially abusing her. I had a friend like this whose partner was completely useless when the baby was born and steadily showed his true colours by becoming controlling with money and generally very demanding. I was quite worried about her and tried to gently point out that his behaviour was abusive. She left him when the child was a couple of years old.

Spritzinthesun · 08/09/2022 13:18

@justaladyLOL no, it's not my business, but that doesn't mean I'm not concerned. What kind of friend would I be if I wasn't? I do wonder if you'd have said the same if I had seen evidence of physical abuse. That would be none of my business either. Emotional and controlling abusive is also very serious.

OP posts:
Spritzinthesun · 08/09/2022 13:24

@FuckFuckGo no, he has two from a previous relationship. He seems quite hands on with them, but they're virtually adults now.

OP posts:
SpinningFloppa · 08/09/2022 13:25

Yes but be prepared for her to not listen to a word you say about it and maybe even stop talking to you if you dare to mention it

pinkyredrose · 08/09/2022 13:25

justaladyLOL · 08/09/2022 12:57

It is not any of your business unless she wants to talk about it and says he is upset

Of course it's her business, her close friend is in a controlling relationship, is she just meant to course her eyes to that and pretend it's not happening?!

OP Can you show her some websites Women's Aid etc that detail what coercive abuse is, see if it gets through to her?

knittingaddict · 08/09/2022 13:37

justaladyLOL · 08/09/2022 12:57

It is not any of your business unless she wants to talk about it and says he is upset

I disagree.

My daughter was in an abusive marriage. I would hope it is the business of all those around her who love her. My daughter finally found the courage to leave after an event where we saw him abusing her. I told her that what he was doing was wrong and it validated all the things she was feeling herself. Sometimes that's all it takes.

Dery · 08/09/2022 13:38

Yes, it does sound like your friend is in an abusive relationship. The trance-like state is a symptom, I think, which arises from the cognitive dissonance between what her relationship should be and what it is and her wish to hide this from herself.

It sounds like her desperation for a child has led her to accept an abuser as a partner. She may be thinking it’s not abuse unless he hits her (which is wrong) but I strongly suspect that at some level she knows he and the relationship are wrong.

It’s great that you’re being so supportive. Unpleasant as it may be, you should try and be as civil as possible to her partner when you see him. Don’t give him an excuse to isolate her from you. Your support could be crucial in months and perhaps years to come.

UpToMyElbowsInDiapers · 08/09/2022 13:57

I had a similar situation with a good friend recently. I wrote down the three examples that most stood out to me, and prepared some thoughts, then I gave her a call when I knew she was on her own, not with her DH.

I prefaced the conversation with something like “[Friend], I’m about to comment on something that is none of my business, and I hope you’ll take it the way that I mean it: not that I’m meddling, but that I care deeply about you and I’m worried about you. Please hear me out, because I’m feeling nervous about raising this and would like to get through what I have to say before you react, otherwise I know I’ll lose my nerve, hahaha.

It’s about [her DH’s name]. The way that he’s been treating you has raised a few red flags for me. I’ve observed [example 1, example 2, example 3]. In particular [example 3] has been sitting really uneasily with me since I saw it a few days ago, because you deserve so much better. I don’t presume to know what you should do about any of this, but I wanted to raise it with you just in case any part of you was doubting whether these behaviours are normal. From an outsider’s perspective, no, they seem very problematic. They’re controlling, they isolate you, they prevent you from living the life you want to live (you and your DCs), and being honest it feels like they border on abusive, although I know that’s a very loaded word. I think it’s important for you to consider that abuse could be at play.

Now, the LAST thing I want is to make this all one more thing you need to worry about, or to feel like you need to hide anything from me from now on, or ‘stop venting’ about DH. Only you can really know what’s going on in your marriage and whether you’re ok with it, but from the outside there are a few markers that look like you could be in a risky situation, and what I want to make clear is that whatever happens or however you feel, I’m here for you.”

She took it amazingly well. She told me she was starting to talk about these things with her therapist, and that she and her DH were starting couples therapy. She said that she and her DH both agreed the previous week that fundamentally they really love each other and want to stay together, but that they knew there were relationship dynamics that had to change. She thanked me for raising what I saw with her, because it made her feel valued and connected. She texted me again that night to reiterate that, and we’ve talked many times since then about other things - the conversation didn’t imperil our friendship, and I’m very glad I raised it. (And glad that she’s dealing with it in therapy alone and with her DH - I think that in the circumstances, that’s a potentially ok outcome).

Hallowbat · 08/09/2022 15:07

Very much sounds abusive. My ex didn’t help at all with any nappy changing, feeding etc and I had to try and keep newborn baby quiet as he would ‘kick off’ if he wasn’t able to go for naps during the day. Absolutely awful way to live and I’m ashamed to say I put up with it for another couple of babies too. You sound like a lovely friend please support her until she has the strength to leave

AubadeIsIt · 08/09/2022 15:14

justaladyLOL · 08/09/2022 12:57

It is not any of your business unless she wants to talk about it and says he is upset

There is a baby involved in this horrible situation, who is evidently coming second to the ridiculous needs of this controlling a-hole, and possibly witnessing physical abuse. You're right to show concern.

NotLactoseFree · 08/09/2022 15:20

Ignore all the people telling you it's none of your business. It's not like you're trying to wrestle her out the door and ban her DP from the house. Of course you're concerned.

Unfortunately, she's very early into this and it's very very unlikely that anything you say will have any kind of impact at this point. At best, a light laugh and a comment like, 'haha, wouldn't [your DH's name] love it if I was 100% in charge of his washing" or "I'd give up my relationship before I'd let him talk me out of pilates - it's my sanity."

Incidentally, giving up things she loves is a pretty classic early sign of controlling behaviour. It's part of a process of isolating her. Be very careful because he won't be happy about you being present and supportive so you may need to bite your tongue a lot in order to make sure you don't get cut out.

NotLactoseFree · 08/09/2022 15:24

If he's got an ex and DC with that ex, do you know anything about her or other ex partners? I ask because that is often another red flag - does your friend tell you stories about how horrifically he has been treated in the past and how she's a bit more sympathetic to him because of it etc....?

Timeforredwine · 08/09/2022 15:43

Concerned or not if she hasnt expressed a problem why are you making one albeit well intentioned and lovely of you.

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