Really struggling with friend who is very well meaning

[kardomen]

I have a friend who has autism and is a female, let's call her Steph. We have been friends since aged 13 at school. My mum has autism so I think I gravitated towards Steph because I understood her.

Steph is very lovable and can easily make friends she just never does and is very introverted. All her friends are very old friends and we only have one friend who is meutral.

Steph hasn't really changed in the past 15 years but she's started to really annoy me when she never used to.

We can meet up for coffee and she will talk at me for four hours. I cannot get a word in edge ways. This is the same as if another person joins us, Steph will talk 80% of the time about herself and all her interests. During these conversations she can break down in tears, jump up in joy. It can be really exhausting but it can be endearing. After talking at me for an hour she burst our crying because she got onto talking about insects and remembered her pet butterfly died three years ago. I just don't have a lot of sympathy and can get frustrated at having to fake compassion, but she would never know because I say supportive things.

She lives with her mum while in her late 20s and every time she moves out her new flatmates cause her so much anxiety and depression she has to move back in. The last flatmate she lived with for six months, he was a nice enough guy but always left his dishes until the morning. Steph would talk about this as if he had murdered someone, when really everyone has bad flatmates and this guy wansn't that bad. I just really struggle to feel empathy for situations where I think someone just needs to suck it up or move. She would have massive mental break downs and her family and other friends would validate her feelings. She would call me up crying three times a week saying she had come into the kitchen in the morning and he had done it again. It was very over the top but this happens every time she moves out.

I know I am not the most empathetic but I think due to some horrific experiences in my life, I save empathy for much worse case scenarios and I am very empathetic to Steph when I know she is really struggling, just not every time.

Our meutral friend was trying to tell Steph and I about how she was feeling really depressed but she is starting to recover. Steph hijacked the conversation and spoke about how she was depressed a few years ago and she started crying. I felt really bad for my friend because we have spoken about Steph's depression so many times and this was my friends moment.

I love Steph but spend so much time resenting her. It feels so unfair because she is the loveliest person and it's not her fault she has autism, depression, and anxiety and some of these are autistic traits.

She needs alot of emotional support but will never ask for it. But if you offer it's a tidal wave of emotions. I feel so guilty when I go through periods not checking on her because I can't deal with it. Her mum wants me to do more with her because she's depressed and I'm her longest and best friend and her other friends are all very introverted and don't like doing things. I just feel worn out.

It's not your responsibility to look after her. Just pull back. We all have a responsibility to ourselves to manage the company we keep, so that it's at manageable levels. It's part of being an adult.

Where did you learn that you ought to look after another adult? Ill parent? Addict parent?

Her mum wants me to do more with her because she's depressed

Her mum can want the moon on a stick-it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. You need to offer only what you are happy to.

I think I have just always looked after her @Watchkeys she's very naive and I do worry about her and her future. I don't know what would happen if her mum died because she's very child like and her mum is her emotional crutch

Does anyone else have a similar experience?

It sounds like your friend’s mum might be trying to get some space away from her, and she is thinking you meeting her and listening to her monologue will give her (the mum) a break.

I think in your shoes I would tell her mum that she needs appropriate qualified support as an adult with autism, for example the National Autistic Society might be a good place to get advice.

Can you limit your time for seeing her and then it’s easier to accept that you will just be there and not get a chance to tell her about what’s going on in your life? So saying when you arrange meeting them that you are happy to meet for an hour for coffee, you need to head off after that. Put it in a text so it’s clear.

I work with someone who acts in a similar way and the level of dissecting and scrutinising and criticising everything is hard, and takes up a lot of my time mainly patching things up where other team members have been on the receiving end of some of the behaviour. At least in that setting it is easy to say to the monologue person that you can’t meet for more than 30 minutes or ask them to provide a suggestion that might help the situation.

I think you need to stop faking empathy. It's not fair to either of you.

Quite. You're faking feelings and then resenting people for responding to them. If her Mum makes you feel obliged, tell her you've got less time these days. You need to be honest.

People with autism tend to monologue about themselves. It's part of their condition. They also struggle to empathise with others.

Understand that she isn't a "normal" friend and accept her for what she is. Don't ask her to weigh-in on things that aren't all about her.

Not sure how this friend is "well-meaning" 🤔. She doesn't sound very well meaning at all - just extremely self-absorbed.

My advice is not to feel guilty about not wanting to spend time with her. It is quite understandable!

I am sure even someone with autism can understand that most people do not want to listen to a monologue for four hours.

Oh gosh I really relate to this.
My Dad was autistic and when I was in my early 30s I realised that I had spent my life gravitating towards others with what I would describe as having 'autistic tendencies' who could not offer reciprocal friendships or relationships.

I have 2 'close' friends who have these tendencies and I have had to learn how to have friendships with them that don't just drain me and benefit them. That's not fair.
Steph may be autistic, but you matter too. You have needs. Her needs don't trump yours.

Firstly, boundaries are your friend here.
How long can you manage in Steph's company before your energy begins to deplete? Is it easier to spend time with her when others are present also so it doesn't deplete you? Invite another friend to join you? She may not like it, but it's not all about her.

I have found some autistic people need to see a benefit for them in most of what they do... it's a selfish condition by nature. My friends are also very well meaning, they want to be kind, want to be generous, but I also know that when they're being generous with gifts, it's often because they need me to provide a platform for them to monologue. They are buying that platform from me. I often give them 30 minutes, an hour, before explaining that I have work to do or somewhere to be. They would not listen to me monologue for longer than 2 minutes, I don't owe it to them either.

I spent a lot of time weighing up whether or not these friendships gave me anything in return and I decided that they did. That I cherish their friendship and their well meaningness, their sensitivity, the fact that I 100% know that they would never set out to hurt or manipulate me. Many ND people I know would.

It's all about boundaries I'm afraid.
And honesty.
If you think that Steph is overreacting about the dishes... challenge her.

"What do you think is the worst that could happen if the dishes are sat there over night?"

"Yes that is upsetting but it's also a fact of life, many of us deal with grief regularly."

"I'm really sorry, I need to stop you there, I've suddenly gone feeling very overwhelmed, I need to get some air."

Be authentic with her.
You will probably find that she leans on you a bit less and perhaps even starts to realise that you're not her emotional crutch because right now,, that's what you are.

Boundaries and authenticity.
Goodluck.

She needs alot of emotional support but will never ask for it.
Yeah she does - not in words, but by assuming it's fine for her to monologue at you for 4 hours.

You are going to have to either pull away, or spell it out for her.
Obviously either of those actions will be awkward & uncomfortable for you, the second one more so.
But you may feel that the second option is ultimately the kindest & most honest.
You are allowed to get a word in edgewise, you are allowed to speak up for yourself, & - given her autistic traits - it may be easier for her to have some 'ground rules' gently & kindly pointed out to her.

You'll know better than PP how best to open the topic with her.
Maybe by making it about you "I'm knackered today chum - can we do something quiet like a nature walk & leave the talking for another time?"
"I can't take all this on board today, can we forget about Steve & his washing up now?"
"I've been listening & I'm interested in you & your feelings, but only for half an hour at a time! - can we take it in turns now?"

That kind of thing.
Also - not sure why you called yourself unempathetic. You sound quite the opposite, a kind a generous pal. Don't be scared to tackle this head on (but gently!) - you need empathy & support too.

FFS I managed to miss that gem.

OP - do NOT be guilted into giving more than you are comfortable with.
"Friend's mum, I'm not her therapist, I'm her friend, & I need time to decompress too. Please stop pressurising me, & don't presume to treat me like friend's paid care worker."

Stonking post @Pomodor0 !

Sounds like you need a break from her a bit.

Do you think it would be helpful to tell her about giving other people time to talk or being more blunt when she is talking over others time so she understands she needs to give others time too.

I'm autistic and have anxiety issues.

Back away from her. I'd hate anyone to hang out with me or be my friend out of guilt/obligation. I'd much rather know they'd prefer some distance from me.

You don't have to baby her or see her when you'd prefer not to just because she's autistic.

Do you think she'd be open to you telling her that she does this - monologues or monopolises conversations? I'd want to be told, in fact my DH occasionally does give me a discrete nudge in some social situations- I tend to waffle on when I'm nervous. I'm glad that he tells me, I don't always immediately realise I'm doing it.

Fixations/talking on and on about a certain thing isn't unusual for us, but it's fine to point out we've been talking for a while and someone else has something to talk about.

Thank you @Buttingtons for your candid & informative post.

As an NT person, I can only read up about what ND conditions are like for the sufferer, & hope to be as empathic & unbigoted as possible. It was useful to see that the idea of spelling out social behaviour (rules-based advice!?) can be helpful to the autistic friend.

As @Buttingtons has very clearly demonstrated here- not all autistic people are this selfish. Sometimes we need to differentiate between the autism and selfishness too.

thank you @Pomodor0 thats really helped.

Her mum does have high exceptions of me. She constantly expects me to offer Steph a free room in my flat (even if she was paying I could never allow this), she expects me to find Steph a job, (I have created a CV for Steph I have applied for jobs on her behalf and I have sent many her way) Steph is very capable and has a degree, she just needs a massive shove in the right direction or she will stay perpetually unemployed. She's just started a new roll, hopefully she enjoys it.

I adore her. I really do. She's kind, thoughtful, and so lovely to everyone. I would like her in my life but something would need to change.

I have spoken to her many times. I've told her when we talk, she dominates 90% of the time. I told her she interrupts me and doesn't stop talking for 30 minutes. She always apologises and says she knows she does it but doesn't mean to. She will do it again next time.

She is very obsessed with online gaming. She will game all day if she could and talks about it relentlessly even though I have no interest. I think this turns off a lot of other potential friends for her.

The problem for me is meutral friend always invites her along and then I never get one on one time with meutral friend. Meutral friend is really lovely and patient and stays Steph really needs this time with us.

Honestly I try so hard to keep an eye on my own behaviour. I don't want to be friendless and have people I love want to not spend time with me.

So I do try to stop and think about how long I've been talking and what about. It doesn't come naturally, but this might actually be helpful to her. She may honestly have no clue that she's being a pain.

I also have an excellent therapist that I practice with, and she tells me when I'm doing it in that moment so we can stop and assess, and to try and make a habit out of stopping when you're talking too long. Op does your friend have a therapist?

Tbh it's useful to an extend that my husband has ADHD and not much filter. I'm grateful when he says "Buttingtons you've been talking about <weird topic> for 18 minutes, time to stop now please".

@Buttingtons I can imagine it's a struggle for you, thank you for sharing your story.

I don't think Steph has much desire to change. When i've told her she's acknowledged but not really cared and it doesn't really go in. She's never mentioned before being worried about being a pain or not making friends.

She doesn't have a therapist, should I recommend she gets one?

You absolutely should recommend this.
Repeat, repeat, repeat too.

Yes, please do recommend a therapist.

I've had 2 long bouts of therapy before, 5 years in my 20s, then a break and I've now been back in therapy for a year. It's worth every penny. I find it so helpful to have someone help me process things and to look at my behaviour.

But if she's been told by you that she has these behaviours then she might not want to change or have therapy to help.

It's difficult when some behaviours are linked to autism, like social ineptitude/fixations/not understanding social etiquette or cues. But those can also occur in non-ND people.

You can be selfish because you have autism, but you can also be selfish but also happen to have autism.

You don't have to just excuse negative behaviours that piss you off because someone has autism. You can tell them. But if you have told her and she isn't interested in changing then that's more difficult. What happens if you stop her after 2 minutes of talking about games and ask if you can talk about something else?

I have spoken to her many times. I've told her when we talk, she dominates 90% of the time. I told her she interrupts me and doesn't stop talking for 30 minutes. She always apologises and says she knows she does it but doesn't mean to. She will do it again next time.
Am not actually being facetious here - could you make a kindly-meant running joke out of it, by holding up a flashcard ..?
Maybe just saying "90%!" to cue her into sharing the conversation more?

The problem for me is meutral friend always invites her along and then I never get one on one time with meutral friend. Meutral friend is really lovely and patient and stays Steph really needs this time with us.
Talk to the mutual friend.
"Hey chum I love out get togethers with Steph. But sometimes I like one on one time with each of you too. I'll be seeing Steph separately next week, but can we get together for XYZ on DATE, just us?

As for the mother's expectations - she must feel desperate & overwhelmed & I can see where she's coming from. But is it exceptionally out of order to expect you to move Steph onto your home (for free, yet!) & to do job apps for her.
Don't be afraid to say so. If Steph needs specialist help with accommodation or her career, she/her mum need to access that via experts, not put it all onto you.

I suspect ASD in myself. Although I enjoy monologuing a lot, I have recently learned to enjoy listening. Because it allows you to understand someone's inner world and to predict their behaviour more effectively.

i think you have to be more straightforward.
be assertive.
say, i have no interest at all in gaming, let's talk about something else.
and then if she goes on and on, quietly put your hand up.
if she asks why, say, permission to speak, i think it's my turn now.
then you could go on about something she has no interest in, and say, well that's how i feel when you go on.
let's try to have a conversation that works for both of us, otherwise i don't see the point.

Great post @Pomodor0

@kardomen wot they said, honesty and boundaries.

Decide how long you can or want to give. Tip: 30mins would be very generous. Set that expectation when you set up the meeting.

When that time is up interrupt with, goodness look at the time, got to go and physically remove yourself.

You will feel much better about the whole thing when you have cut right back from the marathon (four hours is just not right) and you have shown yourself that you can stick to the time you have offered.

Just like with a toddler, ignore any attempt to get you to stay longer against your wish. No extensions, no fuzzy adjustments. Clean simple rules, 20mins or whatever.

You are not in a position to provide professional support, any attempt to do so will not end well as you have already noticed.

Sticking to this sort of agreement on your own terms is a life skill. One of my colleagues used to get caught by a colleague and was fascinated to see how I allowed so many mins and no more, before extricating myself. For the record, my limit was five minutes.

It will stand you in good stead in other situations.

For the avoidance of doubt, 20mins is very generous. There will be no reciprocation.

Her mother may have high expectations of you and this has worked well for her so far. It's doesn't work for you and you are an autonomous person who is entitled to set your own boundaries. And indeed should do so.

Likewise your mutual friend. Ask upfront 'will it just be you' and take it from there.

It's all very well being 'nice', as we as women are socialised to be. You need to assert your boundaries, and practise that explicitly until it becomes automatic for you. Start right now.