Infirm and mentally infirm GP's, how can they get help?

[VictorianSqualor]

Not sure where to post this and it's long and complicated so try and be as short as possible!

DP's paternal grandparents are both very old, in their 80/90's and live next door to his mum and dad.

Over the last few years his nan has started to deteriate mentally and his grandfather physically.

At the moment his grandfather can hardly walk and has had a couple of accidents due mainly to being in unsuitable accomodation, but his nan refuses to either move or change the way the house is to help him, sadly she also won't allow anyone in the house, so no-one can even go round to help.

DP's dad is in a bit of a state about it all, but they have a complex relationship anyway so he won't stand up to his mother, DP's mum had enough and called Social Services. SS said they would go round and assess the situation, which at times nan agrees with, but when they turn up she won't open the door. Numerous times DP's parents have tried to get the SS in to assess his grandfathe but to no avail.

Tpday grandfather has had another fall, and the family are extremely worried he is going to do himself an injury, he's late nineties and living in a victorian terraced house with bloody steep stairs, he needs help.

Is there anyway/anyone we can contact to get around nan's stubborness??
She just refuses to let anyone in and never leaves, so I would assume it would have to be forced entry.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Dear OP

this sounds like a sad situation! Your Dp's nan is probably scared stiff about what will happen if she lets people in.

From a legal POV whether help can be compelled is whether:

a) One or both parties has the mental capacity to refuse help/treatment. Ie being fully able to comprehend the possible consequences of accepting or declining the help. You say DP's nan is 'mentally deteriorating', are SSaware of this? To what degree, can you elaborate?

b) the secondary issue is whether your Dp's grandfather may be considered a vulnerable adult. If he is very frail and dependent on his wife, and she is essentially refusing help on his behalf then SS may be able to intervene on HIS behalf. there are ways to 'gain entry' to a persons home but it is a last resort. Could SS go around with a memeber of the fsmily, your D'P's mum or dad for example?

Do you know where abouts in SS the contact was made, sometimes its more productive to contact the local Older Adults Mental health team (most will accept self referrals/ family referrals as well as through medical routes. They will have lots of experience in helping people who are quite resistant to accepting help and will be able to assess the 'mental deterioration' as well as do a general 'risk assessment' of the situation referring on to physio's, occupational therapists etc as necessary.

Most general hospitals have 'fall clinics' as well, would your DP's nan allow the Gp to refer her Hubby to this?

I can underatnd your DP's nans fear/resistance to outsiders coming in, could someone maybe sit down and explain that accepting help doesnt mean giving up all independence?

Well, I've never actually met his nan, we've been told not to go round by his Father, but from what I've been told she knows what is going on, she knows what risks her husband is taking by staying in the house, which is why the family manage to get her to agree to help, there was talk of respite care for him which she seemed happy with, then when SS turned up she wouldn't speak to them or let anyone in.

I'm not sure where in the SS dp's mum has been speaking to, but I would assume it was wrt Grandfathers problems rather than anything she may be suffering from, so I'll suggest mental health to DP's parents, Just going to call her now anyhow to see if I've got everything straight.

My grandparents on Dad's side were very ill before they died - my nan had many minor strokes and dementia, grandad had diabetes and well, died of old age I think.

Anyway, my dad and uncle managed to discuss about getting the power of attorney (sp) for my grandfather after nan died (she went into a nursing home - she was too ill to be managed well enough at home/by us) - not sure if that would help where SS were concerned though (would it over-ride the nan?)

GF was helped by meals on wheels but it took AGES for him to accept that they needed to gain entry into the house - he kept forgetting who was meant to be coming and then feared they would steal from him. I think my dad ended up writing a list of the usual delivery people and it had to be those on the list that were let in... or something like that. They also got a stair lift put in (not sure if it was done privately or through SS again as GF was adamant that he would not move out - I think the money came from the "estate" if you see what I mean)

I'm sorry to hear this though Must be stressful for everyone.

Thing is DP's mum and dad live enxt door and his dad ahs retired, so is at home all day, if it was a worry over who was entering the house we could get round that because he could be there but she won't let anyone in at all, even though she knows who they are.

UPDATE:
Today grandfather has fallen again, he was in the conservatory from 7am this morning til about an hour ago, DP's parents have called an ambulance and he has been taken to hospital, apaprently he will be put in respite care tomorrow.

Does anyone know what this will entail?? Will he be sent back 'home' if they find he is at risk?

?

No advice but wanted to pass on my best wishes for you all.

Is his wife worried she will be left on her own and that is why she doesn't let anyone in to assess them?

If he's been taken to hospital and it's deemed unsafe for him to return home so he's had to be admitted to respite care then he will most likely be thoroughly assessed. His wife will be consulted but they will also assess her ability to care for herself and him. It's unlikely that they will allow him to go home if he's in danger of falling again.

I have no idea NAB,We've heard today apparently she has been violent towards him

Oh heck!!

Through frustration maybe?

he will be thoroughly assessed by physios and occupational therapists, and if it is deemed unsafe to send him home, then SS can be involved and the next steps can be taken .

TBH, respite is seen as a temporary thing, and unless GF's condition can be improved to the point where he would be safe, then he is looking at either sheltered accommodation, or nursing home/ residential home dpending on the level of care he needs. It can sometimes be possible to arrange eg home help up to 4 times a day, plus bath assistance/ meals on wheels, but if GM won't let them in, no point .

another option would be a home that would take both of them....would be tricky to find, as it sounds as if she might need a different type of care.

TBH Tisyy, we are all hoping that he will be put in residential accomodation, GM is not going to allow him help and she is an old woman herself, she cant physically help him the way he needs it.

I don't know why NAB, From what DP has said she has always been quite a nasty piece of work, wishing him dead in front of everyone, calling him names etc, now he cant defend her himself he told dp's brother he is scared of being there

It is heart breaking.

Good news is, just spoke to MIL and apparently Grandad is happy to be in hospital and looking forward to the respite, so sad as it may seem at the moment him being where he is is best.

When PIL's cme home they went in to see Nna though and apparently she had been cleaning the house and stuff, when they mentioned Grandad might be coming back she kicked off shouting at them and kicked them out

Trying to look at it from her point of view, if she isnt just being mean, then we're thinking maybe she knows he needs help but him leaving rather than someone coming in the home isn't a threat to her and her life iyswim? Maybe thats why she left him so long when he fell aswell? I really don't know, all I know is he is safe now so we can stop worrying for a while at least.

She left him on the floor?

I do think someone needs to talk to her about that. It isn't on.

is your nan mentally well?

just wondering, her behaviour does seem extreme and even odd.

glad your grandad is happier

Yes, NAB, she has left him both times he fell recently, the first for an hour or two and the second for about 6 hours.

People have tried to speak to her, I mean fgs she only has to pick up the phone or shout over the back fence, DP's dad is always home.

Thats just it scorpio, we think she's losing it, she cant seem to see whats going on and how unfair it si, either that or she doesnt care.

How are things today?

Hope things are improving. If Grandad is able to tell you that he is happy to be in hospital and looking forward to respite social services/hospital staff need to be made aware of this. Most people would be desperate to get home so it does suggest that Grandad feels happier (and perhaps safer) away from his home (and his wife).
He is also in a position where he can let his views be known, rather than being intimidated by his wife.

Seems to be going ok, he is still in hospital whilst assessments etc take place so we know he is safe, he is totally of sound mind, his only issue is his mobility so at least he can speak up for himself and shouldn't have a problem with doing so without Nan there iyswim.

MIL says he has been really cheerful and the docs say he is very healthy.

How sad. The poor man. Glad he is in hospital and being cared for.