How long would you wait?

[ArcTan]

If your partner withdrew intimacy, how long would you wait before leaving / looking elsewhere?

We've been married a decade with 2 kids of 3 and 6. It's frankly a miracle we had our second child as we've only had sex 14 times since our first was born (I was 32 at the time).

I've tried talking about it but conversations get shut down. I've suggested councelling but that was a firm "no". We tried scheduling intimate time but that "wasn't spontaneous enough". I've tried sponteneity but it was never the right time or there was some excuse (headache / work / too tired etc). Even occasions when we've taken leave days to spend the day together such as birthdays and anniversaries have been fruitless.

We do get on well and work together as a team or family unit (or whatever you call it) however, every now an then I'd like to be fucked in the most gloriously passionate way some crumb of intimacy.

I'm at the stage where I don't like to watch sex scenes on TV any more as it makes me feel sad and I've recently bought some sex toys to try and dampen my desires. Even though the toys are wonderful (I think I had one of my most intense orgasms the first time I used them), they're no replacement for actual sex.

I did go through a stage of considering a FWB and although the idea was / is very exciting, I don't want to break up my family. On the other hand, spending the rest of my life in a sexless marriage makes me feel incredibly sad.

I just don't know what to do for the best so I'm really interested to hear the thoughts of the people on here.

How do you open the conversations?

Are you doing enough to help with all the things that are making your partner tired/busy etc

@Watchkeys - it varies. Sometimes we're cuddling on the sofa and it's all quite rational, othertimes it's in bed when I'm on the verge of tears after another rejection and get asked "what's wrong".

@fufflecake - I wake up, make breakfast, shower, get the kids ready, go to work FT (an hour each way), come home, sort the kids out, we take it in turns to put them to bed / cook, I then tidy up the kid's mess until I flop on the sofa plus extra bonus cleaning and other chores at the weekends. He WFH so drops and picks the kids from school / nursery and occasionally cleans a bathroom.

I come bottom of the list. I appreciate there are work things that require brain space outside of office hours but it's the same for me - we're both professionals with high pressure jobs. I just happen to want to keep our relationship alive and want an active sex life.

Sorry, I worded the question badly, I meant more along the lines of what approach do you have? Is it, for an example, a 'What's wrong?' perspective, or 'Why don't you give me what you want?' or 'You're not the person you used to be' or..?

I'm just wondering if you're getting shut down due to making your partner feel pressured, when you could maybe be asking them if they're ok/what's bothering them, or something?

I would book a marriage counselling session and say that unless he has any other ideas, you see this as the best way forward to improving your marriage as you are deeply unhappy.

If he chooses not to attend, go anyway. It will help you process your grief and eventually, help or end your marriage. So either way it will benefit you. He may decide to come at some point out of curiosity, or to defend himself against what he imagines you're saying about him.

When were you last intimate, and who initiated that? Does he ever just kiss (properly, not a cursory peck) or show you that he is still interested in you sexually/romantically at all? If he does, then there might (might!!) be a glimmer of hope with counselling...if not, then ask yourself what it is you are hoping to save.

Good advice.

@Watchkeys - I'd try something along the lines of "Would you like it if we were a bit more connected?". I really want to understand why I'm not wanted and I don't think being confrontational yields results. If I could understand why then maybe there could be a solution.

Whenever we have a rational discussion about it, we always agree that we both want more intimacy but it doesn't actually happen.

@Jobsharenightmare - That's a very reasonable course of action. It feels a bit shit to be semi planning an exit though. I can't see a time when we could both attend as we have no child care (no rellies or anything near by).

@SpringIntoChaos - About a month ago and it was good. We both enjoyed it and both said we wanted a repeat performance... Still waiting... I'm always the instigator. I've stopped the casual intimacy such as incidental touching and kissing the past couple of weeks as I can't bare the lack of reciprocity. There's been nothing coming my way since apart from the odd peck.

I asked the other night what feeling desired was like. "Good" was the answer without a glimmer of realisation of what I was actually getting at.

What am I hoping to save... My family. My father left when I was a baby and I had almost no contact after that. I tried to build a relationship with him many times but always got knocked back. I don't want that for my children. I grit my teeth and try to make it work for their sake so they can have both parents available when needed.

We have a very comfortable life compared to my upbringing. My mum tried her best but ultimately we had nothing - every christmas and birthday I'd give her any money I'd received to help out. We work well as a family unit, it's "just" the intimacy that's lacking. If we can resolve that then there's no reason my children can have everything I didn't.

Have you tried the well used "date night" approach?
Frankly I would be thinking about leaving.

I really want to understand why I'm not wanted

I don't think it's understandable, and it's not personal. The fact is, he's made it plain that he doesn't want you, although he wishes he did. If he wanted you at all, it would have manifested itself as intimacy by now.

I think rather than questioning why (and, again, if he wanted to tell you, he would have by now), it's time to accept. Then you can work out what to do going forwards. I'd tell him you've had enough re lack of intimacy, and that you, personally, need to find a way to get your needs met, with him or without.

Don't let it carry on as is. Your kids will be learning that adult relationships have an undercurrent of resentment, and a lack of affection.

Your thread is close to my heart. I sympathise with your situation as I was in it.
We used to go months without sex or a cuddle or anything and at first I was ok with it. We worked as a team or so I thought and thought when the dc were older, we'd get back on track. Exh was not a talker, I tried various things to no avail.
I got lonelier and felt sad but nothing changed. Dc were fairly young and I was caught up in the busyness of family life.
I joined a hobby group and that became important to me. In that group, I was happy and enjoyed conversations and connection. In hindsight, this was what I was missing at home.
I tried reaching out to Exh to explain I was lonely and sad without him and was met with silence. I sent emails to explain and didn't get replies. He also seemed to stop even caring about me. Didn't ask about my day or make me a drink etc.
Anyhow, long story short is that I ended up kissing someone else and I realised in that moment that Exh and I could not carry on.
I tried marriage counselling (on own as he wouldn't go) and we separated.
He is now with someone else and I am single. Yes I get lonely still sometimes and miss sex but in a way now I'm single, it's not an opportunity that's missing.
In the end, I just wasn't what or who Exh wanted.

I think if you do your best to communicate, to explain you can't do much else. Try marriage counselling. I didn't find it much use but perhaps the timing is right for you

Good luck

but it doesn't actually happen

^ this is why I have suggested a concrete plan. Nothing is to change otherwise I'm afraid. You've already talked about it.

@ArcTan This advice is correct - it does sound to me that the issues with your sex life date back at least to the birth of your first child and kids or not it isn't natural to have a minimal sex life in your thirties - your husband may have a low sex drive which in the end may kill your marriage but counselling will work help you work things through.

As your are both professionals with demanding jobs (I have been in this position) then you have a mentally stressful work life coupled with the physical demands of home life. Assuming you have a reasonable amount of money could you pay for a cleaner to take away some of the domestic stress - it might just help.

I know FWB sounds exciting but it will only end in tears and your children are at a very impressionable age. I would work through the marital issues first which seems to be your inclination anyway.

Good luck - you sound like a thoughtful person and I am sure you will work this out one way or another even if it means the end of the marriage