Talking with Dad makes me so anrgy

[Girlfrom15YearsAgo]

I’ve always had a difficult relationship with my dad. I live quite far from my parents so only see them a few times a year but we video call every week, which is mainly for my mum’s benefit. He takes over every conversation though – interrupting and holding court with his horrible opinions. I came off the call last night and cried. I felt so down for the rest of the evening – he makes me feel sick and I can’t quite believe we come from the same gene pool.

He is horribly racist. Almost every conversation is about those (slurs) and how they are taking over. The things he says are abhorrent. I’m absolutely anti-racism and cannot deal with the bile he spews. I can’t let it lie so I challenge his views which ends up in an argument and then mum gets upset with me for upsetting him. Mum and my siblings both tell me to ignore it. My siblings tell me they hate his opinions too but choose to laugh them off or complete ignore what he’s saying as its harmless. Personally I don’t think his words are harmless at all. The have the ability to cause a great deal of harm, and laughing it off just makes him think that we think it’s funny so he keeps going.

Last night, apropos of nothing, he started a rant about (slurs) on tv – turning his attention to two specific comedians. He was getting so worked up about not wanting to “see that” on tv and ranted for about 30 minutes on the subject, getting really annoyed at me when I said I’m a fan of both comedians and have seen one of them live. Later in the conversation, he went on about the new people who have moved in across the street – a biracial couple. The words he used to describe the male partner were awful. Mum was trying to smooth things over, saying that they just need to be polite and keep their distance but he’s on a serious campaign to get this guy away from their “respectable neighbourhood”.
I find his attitude so upsetting. This isn’t new news, btw, I’ve been hearing about the new neighbour every week for the past 6 weeks.

The other thing about my dad is that he’s always taken pleasure in other people’s misfortune. Honestly, I think he’s a sociopath. He has no empathy at all.
Also in the call last night he was talking about seeing farmers on the news whose crops have been ruined by the drought – he was laughing his head off saying it sucks to be them and don't over exaggerated impressions of them talking about losing their livelihoods. A few weeks ago he did the same about someone we know who recently lost his business (hospitality/entertainment related and never recovered from the pandemic).

I just feel so angry and upset after speaking to him. I’d like to think that if it weren’t for my mum, I’d probably go nc, but, at the same time I do care about him and worry about him. He has a lot of health problems and may not have a lot of time left. When I think about this I feel really upset. During the pandemic he became very sick and it looked pretty final. I was really upset and the depth of my feelings really shocked me. I traveled to see him as soon as I could after that but after 24 hours was so angry with him that I never wanted to see him again (refusing to be treated by certain doctors, for example). I just can’t reconcile my different feelings and I can’t shake off the hurt and anger after every bloody call.

I get you want to see and hear your mum, but why not end the call when he starts as he is clearly enjoying your discomfort and it looks like you bite every time

That sounds so horribly difficult for you.

I'm not surprised you feel so drained and upset after every call.

He does seem to enjoy the misfortune of others and get worked up about ridiculous things.

Is there any way you could just end the conversation on a bright note when he starts? Someone at the door? Kettle whistling? Blah blah. Prepare a set of stock excuses?

Call your mum on her mobile when he's out?

Just end the call.

”Oh Dear, you’ll have to find another racist to listen to your nonsense. Love you Mum, Bye”
Red Button

The problem is that mum gets really upset when I don't speak to him and I don't like upsetting her.. She doesn't like it when we fight but she gets even more upset when I don't engage with him at all. Keeps asking me how I will feel if something happens to him and I haven't seen or spoken to him for a while. She gets so worked up about it. I think she's hoping that the more we talk, the more chance there is that we'll finally find some common ground and have a more friendly chat and better relationship.

For a while I was speaking to mum separately at a different time of the week, saying that it was nice to have some private mother-daughter chat but that fell away as she said I was just trying to avoid talking with dad and she didn't feel comfortable about it. She's so keen for us to be a happy family and to be honest, so am I - I'd love to have a better relationship with him but almost every single conversation comes around to race and I just can't let those views lie.

There is actually one thing that dad and I do, or should, have in common. We both follow a particular sport. I've only become interested in it in the last couple of years and try to make it the focus of our conversations but even on this topic his main focus is the different skin colours of players and how they shouldn't be allowed to play in the UK. He thinks the team should be completely white and makes fun of any remotely foreign sounding names. So we can't even have that conversation topic.

Your mother gets what she wants out of the relationship she has with her husband so she will likely continue to remain with him. She has abjectly failed to protect you, her now adult child, from the excesses of her H's behaviours.

Drop the weekly video calls altogether or at the very least limit them to once every three months and now let your mother do the legwork in contacting you going forward. You will see where her loyalties really lie then. Your caring and worrying about him are normal empathetic reactions and are two qualities they both lack; empathy and insight. They between them installed the fear, obligation and guilt buttons in you from a young age. When he dies his abuses of you will die with him.

You will ultimately need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got. Such people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions so it is highly unlikely you would ever get any sort of apology from him. Drop the rope held out to you here.

Tell him you've made a boundary, and you'll terminate any conversation he instigates about race. Then just put the phone down as soon as he starts, every time. Tell your mum exactly what you're doing, and that you're happy to talk to him about anything at all in the world, but not race, so it's up to him, not you.

Let anybody who wants to be pissed off with you be pissed off with you. It's perfectly reasonable to say 'We disagree on this topic, so lets not talk about it'. If he wants to talk to you at all, he's going to have to learn what you're ok with and what you're not.

Let go of the idea of challenging his views. It's not your job to teach him how to think. It's your job to make sure you only spend time with people who respect your boundaries.

"She's so keen for us to be a happy family and to be honest, so am I - I'd love to have a better relationship with him but almost every single conversation comes around to race and I just can't let those views lie".

And you are right to respect your principles/boundaries here. You need in turn to let go of all hope that he will change; this is who he is and this is who he really is.

I would think she is keen for her family unit to be a happy family so she then does not then to have to think about her part in creating this dysfunctional family unit.

It's not ok for your mum to try to manage your relationship with your dad, and you need to tell her that. If you are not able or willing to stop speaking to him altogether, you need to end the conversation every time he says something offensive. If he wants to be able to speak with you, he'll soon learn. Tell him "I can't stop you from having those views, but I don't have to listen to them". And if he continues and you are always forced to end the conversation, your mum will have to see that it's him making the choice not to have a conversation with you, not the other way around.

“I would think she is keen for her family unit to be a happy family so she then does not then to have to think about her part in creating this dysfunctional family unit.”

This.

I’m afraid your mum needs to be an adult here, not a child. She’s chosen to overlook your father’s abhorrent views but she’s struggling with your very reasonable decision not to. She wants you to make her comfortable on this. But it’s not your job to make her comfortable.

As you described how he talked and then mentioned his serious health issues, it actually occurred to me that his health might be better if he wasn’t so eaten up with nasty thinking. Your mother might have done him more of a service by standing up to him. But it sounds like it’s too late for any change there.

And now she’s letting you down by trying to make you be okay with his nastiness. Your father is choosing these views. Your mother has chosen to tolerate them. She needs to respect your choice not to.

Keeps asking me how I will feel if something happens to him and I haven't seen or spoken to him for a while.

Could you tackle this head on? “I’d feel sad for him, knowing that his children and Grandchildren will remember him as a disgusting racist.” or “I’d worry for him about the conversation he’d be having with St. Peter.” or “I’d find it shocking that he thinks the word [ExampleSlur] is worth losing the respect of his children for, especially given the state of his health.”

Rather than arguing about his specific views, could you (have you?) get through to him by letting him know the effect it has on you and how you see him.
Maybe, “Dad, have I ever given you encouragement to be racist around me? You know it’s very hard to be disappointed in your parents.”
”Dad, you know what I think about this, have you actively chosen to lower yourself in my estimation?”
”Dad, I never thought it would come to this, but when I hear you speak like that, I feel so ashamed to be your daughter. Never use those words around me again- I find them revolting.”

I'm like you, OP. I wouldn't be able to tolerate hearing such horrible views. What annoys me just as much is people letting it slide, and dismissing it as harmless. If no one tolerated such vile language then racists would soon learn to keep their mouths shut.

I think you need to be very firm and stop letting your mother emotionally blackmail you like this. She is the one who is perpetuating this dysfunctional relationship. Also, she must be horribly racist herself if she can turn a blind eye to his repulsive views. I don't know why you are hanging on to a relationship with either of them tbh OP - they both sound awful!!

He sounds awful, sorry OP. Just seems so unusual these days to hear of someone with that level of racism and obsessiveness about race and colour. Perhaps I'm being naive there.

Have you ever really gone at him for it? I mean, instead of trying to reason or argue, just bloody give him absolute hell for his behaviour? Then following from that, refuse to engage each and every time he starts on his racist bullshit. Make it intensely awkward every time he starts.

OP "Keeps asking me how I will feel if something happens to him and I haven't seen or spoken to him for a while"

You might well be relieved. You should tell her that.
you won't be the first to be grateful when a horrible relative passes away.

I lost someone I thought was a friend because she married a racist. He said to her that he wouldn't stop us being friends but there was no way I was allowed to attend the wedding.

your father sounds on that scale. I couldn't have that in my life.