How do I divorce a covert narcissist?

[anonymityforthewin]

Name changed for this but long-time MNer who's posted before about my 'D'H and some of the things he does. This will probably be long.

Together for 15 years, married for 10, DS is almost 12. I can't believe it's taken me this long to realise that the way I've been feeling low-key mentally and physically ill for the last 15 years can be partially attributed to my relationship. I've had anxiety, panic-attacks, stress leave, GI bleeds from stress, migraines, digestive upset and more. It all came to a head last week. I've been trying for years to write out the things he does but whenever I put them on paper they don't look all that bad so I've told myself it's my issue. Last week there was an issue with DS where we argued and he tried to undermine my decision. When I stood my ground he taunted me with 'Why don't you just tell everyone on mumsnet how horrible I am for caring about my son'. So I did and you lovely people came back with an overwhelming YANBU. So I did some research and found Debbie Mirza's book on covert narcissism and my eyes have been opened. He is a textbook case. Milder than some of the examples, thankfully, but so many things resonated.

Some of the things that I remember him doing:
• When DS was born he was so unsupportive. He got angry if he was woken up in the night. DS had terrible colic/silent reflux so I would spend hours in the cold lounge with him so DH could sleep. DH only ever managed 30 minutes awake with him after I would beg for sleep. I was once awake for 24 hrs with no relief.

• When DS was 2yo a friend came to visit unexpectedly from overseas over the New Year. DH very subtly discouraged her from staying with us so I had to ask friend of mine to put her up. On New Year's day he completely guilted me into spending the day with him and DS and got arsy when I tried to arrange for my friend to come with us. I can't believe I let him manipulate me into ignoring a friend I've known since I was 12.

• I voluntarily went down to 3 days working after DS but I also had a small therapy business on the side that I wanted to continue. This entailed him spending Saturdays with DS. He had to forego an early morning spin class for this to happen and he brought it up constantly how much he was sacrificing. Somehow, my full day of working got whittled down to a half day through DH berating my 'absent parenting' and him complaining that he never saw me. I eventually gave up completely after I was hospitalised with a GI bleed, likely caused from stress.

• We have never had any joint finances and I have never had my name on any of the household bills despite my asking to take some over when we moved in together. The house was his when I moved in and it is still in his name. I make 1/4 of what he does and I'm in debt. I don't have profligate spending habits, most of my money goes on food, DS and the house. I have no idea exactly how much our incomings and outgoings are. I buy all the shopping and do all the cooking so when I am short of cash I have to ask him to transfer me some. He then sends me an amount he deems appropriate; it’s unspoken, but he resents if I ask him for a specific amount. He has a very large undisclosed amount of savings and investments. I once asked him to share our financial situation so I would know what to do if he was run over by a bus. He shut me down for months until he finally, very grudgingly, handed me a hastily written piece of paper with names and amounts. I have no way to check if he was giving me legit info.

• He constantly micro-manages DS and I. I took DS on a wee break recently and DH kept telling us what we should do and where we should go even though he was staying home.

• DH wanted DS to participate in his chosen activity so we enrolled him when he was 4. When DS was 8 he decided he didn't enjoy it and wanted to stop. DH forced him to attend for another 2 years. Eventually, DS was ok with going once a week because some of his school friends were in it. DH then insisted that DS move to the 'development squad' that practiced twice a week and where he had no friends. No surprise, DS actively hated this. I finally put my foot down and told DH that he can't force DS to do the sport any more. DH still makes sly, nasty comments about DS's lack of athletic ability and motivation to this day. Any time DS plays about doing the sport DH says things like ‘No, you can’t do that, you’re not properly trained, you don’t like to be active and healthy’

Jesus Christ. I could go on to write a novel. Why am I only realising how awful he is only now?

I don't know where to start with leaving him. I haven't got a pot to piss in and no family in this country. I do have a job which I've just increased my hours at, but my income is still pretty low and we live in an expensive city. My priority is DS and protecting him as much as possible.

He sounds a nightmare.
You will be able to claim benefits and he can be made to pay child support. He will be required to give a financial statement ( his earnings, savings, pension etc..) but don’t be surprised if he claims poverty. My friend’s husband transferred all his money to his family, claimed he didn’t have a penny savings.
Can you speak to a solicitor? You need legal advice. Although his house it’s a marital asset.
And you can always call Women’s Aid for advice.
Good luck.

Thank you Maytodecember.

I haven't said anything to him yet. I am terrified to drop the bomb. I don't think he would be physically violent, that's not his style. But I do think I need to have a plan in place before I do it. It's ridiculous that I'm the one feeling guilty for breaking up the marriage but I feel it massively. I haven't been able to sleep for weeks and my head is buzzy from stress and anxiety.

OP I myself have posted about my narcissist husband today. We have been married five years but together longer and have a toddler together.

It took me a long time to see it but I have known for a while he is a narcissist. I am in a slightly different situation from you in that I am the higher earner and luckily don't have to rely on him financially except that it means I have been subject to what I would say may amount to financial abuse as he basically takes from me. To be clear this is not a case where I work and he's a stay at home dad and works part time and I'm controlling the money; we both work full time in professional jobs and yet still he claims he has no money and takes mine. Yesterday he asked for a £1 for some milk because he'd left his wallet at home. I only had a tenner so gave that to him thinking he'd give me the change or maybe spend it on food for us, only for him to tell me later about the delicious coffee and almond croissants he had for breakfast. I wouldn't have minded if I hadn't gone without my breakfast and morning coffee as I'm trying to save money.

Anyway I was interested in your examples and will share mine in case it helps -

Not sure how you did bullet points!

o We both had our own cars before we lived together but when his broke down he decided we would share. I proposed sharing for a short time and other compromised but he said no.

o Once we shared a car he would use any opportunity to tell me why he should have priority over it. Even though we both work it was always more important that he get to work. On a weekend his plans were more important. When I was pregnant I asked we'd cope when he's working and I'm on mat leave and he said "the person who works should have priority" ie him.

o I looked after our child almost 24/7 whilst on mat leave including evenings, nights and weekends. Since I've been back to work we both work full time and child is in nursery 4 days a week (due to cost) but he says he is unable to take even a day off or half day to look after the child or work a four day week (I proposed we both do that) but he also cannot afford to pay for more then about 30-% of what we pay currently for childcare so I either have to pay for more childcare or reduce my hours at work or use my annual leave to look after him. I don't mind doing this 90% of the time but I have a demanding job too and sometimes need some more support.

o He cannot he challenged. If we disagree or if I even suggest something that involves him changing his plans he goes mad, shouts, talks over me or walks out of the room if I respond to his lecturing.

o Baby us unwell so last night I woke him to say not sure what to do as he still has a high temp after 3 days and now sick when I give calpol. He shouted at me hastily that if I am a neurotic mum who wants to take baby to A&E then he isn't coming with us. I said I'm not saying we do need to go to A&E but just not sure. At one point I had to point out that he was being nasty just because I am worrying about the baby but I knew the issue was if woken him up and there was a threat of his night being disrupted by a trip to A&E.

I don't have any advice but I am finding it hard to leave too even though I could probably cope on my own financially.

Oh my god, @Dontbelievethenarcissist , some of that seems so familiar. Especially about the part where he is the priority. I was once given an analogy about how we need to do all we can to take care of DH as a family because he is the 'quarterback' and the team need to do all they can to protect the most important player.
I just saw your post. It's so easy to get sucked in, isn't it? I thought he was so lovely at the beginning. I realise now that he was slyly poking away at me from the very beginning. I had just had a bereavement when we met and was experiencing some anxiety and depression. After I met him I went in to a full-on anxiety spiral because I loved him so much and I was afraid he didn't feel the same. I thought I was the crazy one but I realise now that my body was telling me to run for the hills. His first declaration of love was something along the lines of 'I don't care how crazy you are, I love you'. And he would say things like 'It's so hard to know whether or not to end the relationship because I just want you to be well.' He was making me insecure while pretending to be caring. He used triangulation on me by staying in touch with a previous fling saying they were 'just friends' but always texting her late at night etc. He would show me the texts but they were still designed to make me jealous and unsteady.

Have you contacted anyone about it? A solicitor or counsellor?

Don’t drop the bomb.

Channel his covert skills.

Do everything by stealth.

Get all your docs out of the house.

See a solicitor. Understand the process, costs and timelines. Some will defer fees until settlement is agreed if all assets are tied up.

Invest in a good solicitor. Make a plan. “Dropping the bomb” is only one small action in the process - but it needs to be timed with precision.

You need to consider all of the ways he will kick off and have contingencies in place. Never believe one word he says - everything will be self interest and / or a trap.

Emotionally protect yourself (don’t expose yourself to his manipulation or rage - get some professional support to see you through if you can)

Good for you that he is tight and has invested well - because you will now profit from that.

Keep you cards very close to your chest and your eyes on the prize - a calm and peaceful home for your DS to emotionally recover and develop in his teenage years.

I speak to a counsellor.

i have been subject to triangulation as well. He would cause problems by saying his ex thinks duck and such about me or if he's tell him I was stopping him from seeing them when I was using my own car even though ot was before he's usually pick them up anyway. He'd say stuff about her to me and vice versa but obviously that was hard in the beginning as he'd play us off against one another or even suggest he had feelings for both of us but I was 21 and naive and only started seeing him after they had split.

He doesn't ever say he's the priority but just finds reasons why what he's doing is important.

He's trying to turn my family against me now too as he called my dad today after a blow up where he called me every name under the sun but then said I had to let him take my car so he could get to work as he knows my dad thinks it's wrong I want to leave him as we have a child so downplays things.

He will hide any assets or accounts he can, to deprive you of them. So gather as much information as possible before he knows.
He will say nice things in text messages and email which look good in a divorce court but will say awful things verbally which no-one can prove.
He might make reasonable offers on co-parenting logistics only to retract them with worst possible timing to yours or ds's detriment
Don't let such things put you off, but be prepared to guide your son through coping with it and be braced to be treated appallingly but know it isn't you - have you got emotional support from anywhere else?

Everything @DFOD Said.

1. Expect the divorce to be awful. I wish I could say otherwise but I didn't know what I was dealing with and stupidly thought we could br amicable. His vindictiveness had me reeling because I was unprepared.

1. Get a solicitor who knows about disordered individuals. This is essential. I didn't due my lack of knowledge I chose a conciliatory solicitor and it was lamb to slaughter. At the end my solicitor told me she regretted letting me down.

1. Know you will be the subject of a smear campaign. He will be the victim and you the aggressor.

1. Realise they will not care for your children. They will be pawns to punish you or to reduce paying financial support.

1. Expect OW in the shadows. If they suspect you are not under their control or may leave then they will line up a replacement. A narcissist always has a backup.

1. Prepare yourself for learning that the man you thought cared for you..didn't. I realised he is incapable of love or connection. People including his children are objects to serve a purpose.

1. Know he will lie extensively to achieve his financial aims. I walked away with less than I was entitled because I knew he would battle to ensure he came out on top. He convinced our dc and everyone around him that I fleeced him. Of course they now see the difference in lifestyles so know he was lying.

1. Look up YT - Dr Ramani.

1. Don't take his attacks personally - disordered individuals are not rational and you'll never relate or understand them. It isn't personal. Many gentle, empathic, clever people are victims but once you have your eyes opened it becomes impossible to unsee.

On my phone and I just typed a massive reply but lost it. Basically, thank you all for sharing your experience and wisdom. It doesn't come naturally to me to keep things under my hat. I'm pretty much an open book, but that's how he managed to hook me in the first place.
I'll reply more thoroughly when I can get on my computer.
I'm so sorry that you all had these experiences. I hope you are/we're able to heal. I'd love to hear how you're doing now after leaving.
@Dontbelievethenarcissist, what an a**hole! I love visiting friends and family because he is always on his best behaviour. He would never give away to them that he is less than perfect.

@Fireflygal

i just wanted to thank you for the clear points you made. This is exactly what I’ve been going through.

I do wonder why society doesn’t call out people with narcissistic traits. And sadly society is full of enablers. These people have ruined so many peoples lives and they get away with it

The smear campaign is particularly hurtful to me as I have a 2year old and a 4 weeks old baby and I recess call testifying a social worker threatening to drag me in front of children ms protection services and that’s all based on the lies he’s told them.

He rings social services, my parents, my very close friends, cancelled two paediatric visits for my two year old recently, tracked me in the car for months, would not fuel the car for 6 months before I left( but would put the minimal just to ferry himself and bring it back empty) convinced my Gp that I was showysigns of paranoid psychosis who then referred me to psychiatrist and their evaluation found that I am sound of mind but that I have being mentally financially and emotionally abused by him for the entire 5 years of our marriage . He had the chutzpah to tell the judge that I manipulated the psychiatrist. The list goes on.

Am glad I was raised to be reasonable and resilient otherwise I would have broken down. As I write I am sat on my sofa bf my new born and crying because he’s kept my daughter two days longer than he should have her and I have learnt the go ‘deep’ with him as suggested by dr ramani.

I wait for the storm to pass as sooner or later he will get bored of me.

@DFOD all of this. Open book no more, you are your own best friend now and you reallly need to keep it zipped until you have absolutely everything ready to go. Do whatever you need to do to get evidence of all the finances, this will be key.

Most importantly, don't believe a word he says from now on. About anything.

Don't enter into mediation or therapy with him.

He gives as much of a shit about your child as he does about you. It's all performative. You can't save or protect your child from the reality of who their father is, but you can be a strong and stable force that will help to counter the weirdness.

It's not likely to be pleasant but it is absolutely doable, I could have written most of the traits and points upthread and it all seems like a distant very very strange dream now that surely couldn't be real. (Until he blasts in with another directive over email, but you can't have it all! Decisions have repercussions and some of them last longer than others!)

great podcast by a U.K. former doctor and an experienced family lawyer
“divorcing a narcissist love loss and the lure”
there’s also a book