Child access arrangements

[Dodo58]

My daughter has an arrangement for access which is filed at court (not a court order). Basically the school holidays should be split 50/50 and ex has daughter every alternate weekend outside of the holidays. Easter and Xmas is shared on a rota.

Ex insists school summer holidays begins the first Monday after they have broken up from school on the Friday - so insists on having the weekend before the Monday and the last weekend of the school holiday. This would mean that in the summer he has extra days. However, when it is half term, he insists it starts on the Friday - it appears he wants it both ways!

He has said he will refuse to hand their daughter back when her mother goes to collect her.

My queries are:

1. When do you all think the holidays should start - do you count the start date from the day they break up?


2. Does my daughter wait to see if he is not there on the day she goes to collect her and then if he refuses to hand her back, my daughter will refuse to give him the other part of the holiday until he makes an application to the Court to clarify the access arrangements as he has breached the arrangement?


3. Does my daughter pre-empt this and make an application. She is a single mum working part-time and cannot really afford to do this and he may be all talk and no action so it could be a waste of money.


4. He also threatens to go for 50/50 custody if my daughter does not agree.


5. We have reams of emails and texts from him that has worn my daughter down and she usually gives in but has had enough.

My daughter does not want to withhold any access and my grand-daughter (13 yrs old) does want to see her dad, it is just the holidays that has been causing tension for the last 10 years. Any advice is welcomed.

If he is going to be that petty about it then yes it needs to go back to court I think

Thanks - appointment with solicitors made.

50/50 is hard to get in the UK. I used to work in family law, do not anymore and haven't for some years. He would need to live close as to not cause her routine to be destroyed amongst other things. It's about the child and their best interest.

I would get a court order. I have one and it outlined holidays and things. Request it be thorough, such as including the start and end days of the holiday. For example if the child breaks up on the Thursday; holiday to start on the Friday. It will have to be worded so clearly and precisely though so make sure you get advice from a solicitor. You will not be able to request specific dates as they change yearly.

Also ensure you outline any changes to the arrangements are to be agreed in writing by both parties. This prevents any underhanded behaviour and I wish I had this myself.

Solicitor is sending a letter and also advised due to backlog in court system unlikely to get an application date until next March!. it just so happens we saw my grand-daughter at the cinema (she was with her friends). GD told us father has booked a weekend away, despite knowing it is not his access time. If this goes ahead and he does not want to 'repay the days' should we deny him access the next time he picks her up and let him make an emergency application? Or does the tit-for-tat access go on, i.e. you had the extra days so now you have to pick her up two days later, and then he will do the same back etc...... We are so tired of all this and just want it resolved. It has been access disputes for the last 10 years! He will not compromise or discuss like an adult.... it is as if he wants to control my daughter's life. He has a new wife and toddler.....why can he not be amicable! All advice welcomed. Thank you.

What does the teen want? At 13 courts unlikely to enforce an order and simply go by what child wants

Holidays are from the day after the end of term to the day of the start of term (inset) this is by court order

Regarding alternating holidays I would say that the court would take a dim view of ordering a swap unless for exceptional reasons etc
holiday booked from 1st September to 4 th September weekend because no other weekends were available with 6 months notice would be reasonable

holiday booked from 1st to 4 th September to visit your mother - no

look at the counter argument the reason why!

For any swaps ask with your reason well in advance

and make sure it is a good reason

the court order is there for a reason. My ex demanded every other Christmas but shot himself in his foot when he didn’t turn up
the first Christmas

always think
of the counter

don’t swap weekends unless you have to - if you think more than reasonable in your head at all times.

you should not need to swap weekends at all - you know the routine

GD wants everything to stay the same. It is not a Court Order they have. It is an agreement they both signed and filed on the Court file. GD is scared of him and even afraid to tell him she bumped into her mum today at the cinema.
Ex will think daughter would have colluded with mum and arranged it.
GD told mum at cinema today that they are not away this weekend and he has arranged for her friend to stay over on the Saturday (bribery?) - even though mum is to collect on the Friday but ex insists 'No, Monday!'. Mum has told GD that friend can stayover at her house too and she will be collecting her on Friday. Phew - can see chaos ahead as ex is unreasonable and will not communicate with my daughter. thank you all. We just want to try and sort this out as amicably as possible but it seems solicitors will be the only route and my daughter cannot claim the costs back. If it carries on the only way to get it sorted sooner rather than later is to withhold access and force him to make an emergency application.

I have to say, I read that and thought 'why does it matter?'

Sorry do not understand your comment.

Sorry - I meant why does it matter, especially now the child is around the age when they can make their own decisions about when to see Dad etc. It feels like the sort of squabbling over precise number of days which happens immediately after separation and divorce. A few days difference here and there doesn't really require arguments, let alone legal action.

Yes, I was wondering the same. Why does it matter so much that it has to be exact days?

Is it because your daughter has made plans and her ex is trying to ruin them? Or is it because your DGD is scared of her dad? Or is it that if you give an inch, he'll want to take a mile?

If there isn't a specific pressing reason, why not just allow her to be there for the extra few days during the holidays? Your poor DGD must be fed up with all the arguing.

What would happen if your daughter agreed to split holidays the way he wants and lock that in? Would he stop then or just create another issue to fight over?

Court is likely to support going with what DGD wants at this age so unless she'd be happy to tell court she wants things the way her mum does court's just going to be a waste of time and money. Court might say there's a specific way to split holiday time, but given DGD age I can't really see the point of a legal battle. Also even if you get a court order unless you get powers of enforcement (can't remember if that's the correct term) attached the only way to enforce a court order in these situations would be to go back to court.

If he's the kind to keep creating new conflicts when one is resolved, it might make sense to get everything set in stone and clearly defined by the court. Otherwise the best outcome for the child might be to agree to what he wants so DGD isn't in the middle of a conflict between her two parents. Which is what is currently happening with both parents telling DGD she'll be with them this weekend.

What does your gd want? This is what the courts will ask. Sometimes it's a case of 'drop the rope', it's a few days during holidays, if it saves any angst, just let him have the days of gd is happy with it. I know it feels like ex is 'winning' but it's not about that, it's about everyone's stress levels. She's 13 so it won't be an issue soon, and your dd gets her during the week outside of school holidays

Petty works both ways. Is it actually that important whether a week is Monday to Sunday or Saturday to Friday?

What does your granddaughter want?

it’s all very tit for tat.