The last straw

[kkgirl]

I'm just so fuming.
Invited my parents over for the day today, they live 20 miles away and we collect them for lunch and take them back after tea.
This has been arranged for a couple of weeks and dh was aware. Last night he was late in from work so that it was too late to go shopping as I was going to a Body Shop party.
So I got up this morning and went straight out no cup of tea or breakfast to get food for lunch.
Then he decides he will drive to get my parents but needs to go to B&Q to get wood to mend his dads garage. So he leaves here at 10.45 when he knows they will be ready at 11 and at 12.15 he rings me to say they are on the way back. They finally turn up at 1pm.
All afternoon he has been mucking about on the computer while I have been trying to get food, drinks, keep the children from beating each other up etc and generally being obnoxious.
Finally the boys started fighting again and I told them to go to their bedrooms, the eldest said to the other "lets go and play >>>>>>" and dh says "right get to bed like you were told" and starting lecturing me about discipline and how I should enforce it. Like I haven't been running around all day while he sits on his a. I am now really p** off, and the day has been spoilt by all the menfolk and I expect my parents are tense and worried. Both boys in tears, eldest threatening to kill himself, what a nightmare.
Sorry for the long rant, but sometimes I feel like just taking the kids and going. Anything would be better than this.

Poor you, kkgirl. Sounds dreadful--every single bit of it. I know just how you feel when you say "anything would be better than this." In my house the issues are different, but the end result of feeling so angry I could just leave is the same. I really do sympathise. Hopefully you won't be feeling so dire in a few days.

oh poor poor you, kkgirl. Sounds like a really horrid day.

If my partner had been this rubbish I personally think I'd be telling him EXACTLY what I thought of him right now and if he didn't respond properly I'd be gearing up for an out and out, no holds barred row... For me this tends to clear the air and can even lead to changes occuring (for a while anyway!), though I try and avoid doing it too much as my partner finds arguing really difficult and horrible. I think from what you've said though you might need to do whatever you do to let your dh know that you are very very pissed off...
It must be so awful to hear your eldest saying he wants to kill himself. Is this something he often says in the heat of the moment or is it more serious?

Thanks Expatkat

But somehow I think that I will feel the same, maybe now in a few days, maybe a few weeks, but it does always come round again.
Still I expect the evening will be dominated by sulking (me) and shouting (him)

Scrummymummy

I feel so tired and suppressed that I can't really be bothered to discuss it, we won't get anywhere. He is of irish descent, and is really pig-headed, his way is the only way, so we would go round and round in circles.
As for my eldest he has been winding everyone up all day and if he ever gets disciplined (by sending him upstairs) is always saying that he is never coming down and wants to kill himself. I find it so awful and have tried to say that it is not very nice but it doesn't sink in. Hopefully it is just a phase, but I feel pretty p*** off with today.
My mum has just phoned and tried to console me, but she hasn't seemed like her usual boisterous self today, so I'm now worried about her.
I would like to get a large bottle, drink the lot and sleep for days, but obviously can't do that so I probably will sulk for a bit and try to get an early night.
Sorry for the long rant, I love Mumsnet exactly for this reason, you can moan and moan without anyone really knowing who you are and get loads of support and tlc from people who understand.
Thanks.

KKgirl, my heart goes out to you, your message was so full of sadness. I don't really have anything much to suggest except maybe a parenting course that you both attended might help your dh see the error of his ways. Best wishes, take care. Sue

I don't mean my message to be full of sadness, I am a happy contented person normally. Its just I try so hard - my parents both had severe nervous breakdowns over the last years, my dad first and then my mum. And over the past year my dad seems to be going senile and it is hard for my mum I know and bringing them over to us is a change of scene for her. I wanted so much for them to have a nice time with their grandchildren and with my boys playing up all the time and dh being a pain in the a* it just really upset me.
I didn't speak to him all last night, he had the cheek to come back from dropping them home and bring me two bars of chocolate as if that is going to mend our shattered relationship!!! Huh
I'm taking ds and dd horse riding this morning and dh is going to his dads with other ds, so hopefully the space will help.

You do need to talk to him Kkgirl. Have you ever read the book 'Men are from Mars and Women are From Venus'? I know it's full of Americanisms, but it really does help you to understand how men's minds work. If you don't talk to him, he will not fully understand what he has done wrong (it may be obvious to you but not to them). From your post you say he worked late Friday night, which probably wasn't his fault and I doubt it was something he wanted to do on a Friday evening. He then drives the 20 miles to pick your parents up, making a detour to do his own father a favour. Then he probably thought that as they were your parents, you would be better communicating with them (men are crap at conversation with parents) whilst he updates or fixes the computer, thereby doing the family a favour. Now you aren't talking to him so he won't have a clue what he has done wrong and probably thinks you have PMT. That's the way their minds work and if you don't tell them what's going on, they won't know. Men hate sulking more than anything, so please do talk to him. If you feel it will end up in a slanging match, then write it all down and give him that. Then later when the kids are in bed, you can both sit down and discuss what he has written.

You need to listen to his point of view, ask him for his version of the days events, you will probably find they are very different to yours. Don't write your relationship off because of this. You need to work hard at relationships, put in overtime and so on.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I can see two sides to your story. I hope you can get back to talking soon.

Rhubarb

Can I just say that you ought to get a job as a diplomatic ambassador! You are definitely a sympathetic person and yes a lot of what you say may be true.
Yesterday we went our own ways, (usual at weekends he visits his elderly housebound dad 30 miles away with one of our kids). He called me to say he had got something for tea and wanted to be friends. I said not so easy, etc.
He came home with big bunch of flowers, indian meal, bottle of wine and cookies for dessert. I'm not being ungrateful and that is really thoughtful, but its easy to do that as a way of avoiding talking and confronting issues.
He then wanted me to tell him what he had done wrong, which annoys me even more, if he doesn't have any idea, then we must be on different planets. Anyway we ended up arguing in bed, but he left this morning and won't be back until tomorrow but we were on friendly terms.
Thanks for your lovely email, it is really nice to know that you aren't the only one going through the same situations.
Take care

kkgirl, sounds horrible. No time to write much but reading your last post quickly, it does sounds as if he really wants to try. Good luck with talking and hope you get somewhere if you tell him how you feel.

In my experience, if a man asks what he has done wrong, TELL HIM. The don't know how our minds work, and do not have that 'Oh God, have I said something to upset her' sensitivity that women have.

This is not a failing in men, because that is not the way that their brains work. After 15 years together, my dh often still does not know what he has done after offending me. Sulking has no effect other than to make him determined not to ask me what the matter is!

KKgirl, it does seem like he was making an effort by bringing a meal home. AND, rather than using it as a way of avoiding talking, perhaps he thought that a nice meal together might make the atmosphere more conducive to talking?

Chinchilla

It seems it really is true that even after 12 years of marriage I don't know him. I didn't realise that this was a common trait in men.
Do you know that I am not afraid to say that you and Rhubarb have given me a different view of things and thanks I will try to remember this and handle things differently.
Anyway he has been away so hopefully we'll have a nice evening together.

Men - can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em! The secret to understanding men is to be good friends with one who you are not remotely attracted to! I used to work with a bloke who I got friendly with. When I used to moan about dh (then my dp), all my gripes sounded reasonable to me and my girly friends. He used to look at me as if I was mad, and explain what he thought about the problem. He was always spot on, and I started realising that ther is no point applying feminine logic to relationships.

Be kind to your dh, he can't help being a man

BTW - When I say that I understand men, of course I mean theoretically - I sounded totally up my own a**e!! It's all very well being serene and sensible for other people's problems, but my dh still has me in tears sometimes, as you can see from other threads!!! I also get the 'discipline' comment from dh, who waltzes in after work to a child who is ecstatic to see him, after playing me up all day. Sometimes I want to punch his lights out (dh, not ds!) That's when Mumsnet comes in handy...

Hope you enjoyed the flowers, Indian, wine and cookies!

Chinchilla bet that bloke fancied you rotten

KKgirl, after 15 years of marriage, I have found that the only way to make sure dh knows what I want is to tell him, in no uncertain terms, exactly what I expect him to do! He sound a bit like yours, in that he will always find something useful to do, but probably bottom of the list of MY priorities, and then gets upset when I explain that 'x' has been left for 2 months so 1 day will make no difference, whereas 'y' had to be done before lunchtime etc (includes little things like feeding the kids!). He is completely unable to 'read between the lines' as shown by his birthday recently when he completely failed to twig that his bday pressie from his Mum was a trip on the Orient Express - despite the fact that she had done the same thing for SIL, I had told him the sort of clothes we had to wear, he knew MIL was coming up for the weekend to look after the kids etc etc. Now I just explain exactly what I want, in the same way I do to the kids. Oh, top tip - if he's doing something else, get him to repeat it back to you (as the kids have to) otherwise you'll find he's just nodded & not listened to any of it.
Having said all that, I love him dearly, but life has been so much easier since adopting the approach above (went through a 'really' sticky patch a few years ago which required quite a lot of talking out.)

Berries

Thanks for your advice.
Unfortunately things have gone from bad to worse. When he got home last night ( away overnight) he complained that the spag bol I had cooked was too heavy, and asked me not to cook for him tonight (fine by me but a bit insulting when I went to all that trouble). Then within half an hour he was shouting at the kids and getting in a rage about various things.
If my dd hadn't been very tired and ready for bed I would have left. I am just so worn down by him and sometimes I wonder if he really loves the kids they just seem to irritate him all the time.
I went upstairs as soon as dd and ds had gone to bed and left him with eldest son watching REturn of the Jedi.
I was crying quite a bit and just despairing what to do ( I very nearly left him in July, but we would have severe money problems) and the kids would be devastated and its not like you can leave properly because he would have to have access to them, so I can't really see that as being the answer, and I think I still love him ( although at the moment I feel really confused and wonder what that means and I resent him quite a bit).

It's serious when you are thinking of leaving just because of something that happens in nearly every household up and down the country! Perhaps you are both guilty of overreacting to things?

Do you not think that your silence has upset him so much that he is getting depressed? And that his depression is causing him to get irritated? He has tried to make up to you but you have turned him away, so what can he do? I'm sorry but I really feel for him. How can he feel knowing that you want to walk away from him, and for what? Losing his temper? If my dh did that with me he would have left a long time ago.

I overreact too at times. I have shouted and screamed at my dh for no reason, and then gone and sulked for hours, even days. But all it does is allow the tension to build even higher, and what lesson is it teaching your kids about relationships? Now I try to calm down, count to ten and try to see things from his perspective too. I somethings feel that I'm the one who does all the housework and childcare, and then he'll come home and complain because tea is late. But if I sit down and talk to him I will find out that he had a particularly bad day at work, and that dd gave me a hug instead of him and so on. Once I understand why he is acting in a certain way it's easier for me to deal with it. And the same goes for him, I try not to sulk as much. Instead I will say things like "when you complained that tea was late, it made me feel upset as I had been very busy today, and I felt unappreciated".

Please, please open the channels of communication with him. Although it sounds to me like you both very much need to see a third person. I hope you can sort things out soon.

kgirl - it is so easy to over react but Rhubarb has made some really good points; men are just so different from women. Have you read Men are from Mars..... or whatever it is called, it's worth it.

Today my DH got up in such a rage & started shouting about a problem (a genuine issue, but the way he ranted & raved was way out of proportion & OTT) ... I sobbed & screamed & was just about to pour my heart out onto Mumsnet. However, before he left for work he did apologise & when he returned tonight he apologised again & in fact we had a really pleasant evening (of course I had spent the day planning how to leave, my divorce settlement etc etc!!) - we had a nice dinner, a couple of bottles of wine & actually talked (yes, TALKED!!).

I don't know what the answer is, except that men deal with situations so differently & we will probably never comprehend them - but be assured that everyone goes through these situations.

berries said:

My dh has done several things this evening that have mildly annoyed me, including 'I can't watch Digital tv because of the interference from the pissing tumble dryer'(said fairly light heartedly). My response? 'You want some pissing clothes don't you?' (not so light hearted, as I had just spent an hour wrapping up Christmas presents that I had bought for HIS family).

He is always making comments about my cooking, to which I respond that I could always go back to the processed food that we relied on when I was at work. He is genuinely surprised by my reaction, as he thinks that his comments are constructive, whereas I find them undermining.

I guess what I am trying to say is that men don't think before opening their mouths. Try to remember that he is no different from most of the dh's to the members on here. Read some of the other threads where we are all having a moan! He doesn't sound bad enought to leave just yet. Perhaps you need a night out together without children?

Thanks everyone for your postings.
Yesterday lunchtime he came into my office (we work in the same set of buildings), unheard of he never comes over even though I have said we ought to occassionally meet for lunch (opportunity to be alone without kids).
We went for coffee and had a talk, not really about the problems just on more friendly terms. He had made the effort to buy some cakes for the children. I explained my fears about him not showing any affection to them, it is obvious that he loves them, and can care for them as well as I can, but sometimes treats them as nuisances and nothing else. I also said that although everyone gets angry I don't like the rages that is more than anger.
We left it there and were on much more friendly terms.He told me to talk to him about it rather than skulk off.
He made a huge effort last night and although he got cross with the boys fighting it was bearable, and I told him I thought that he is depressed and he told me various things.
He has just left for work now and the atmosphere is a lot better. I guess I can't change him now, but he is only 35 and I'm 43 and I think life should be a lot more fun and less drudge. I want to do something mad like take off to the seaside for the day or something like that.

KKgirl, if you want to go to the seaside then go - it'd be a bit cold though! Or better still, suggest that he spend the day with them, taking them somewhere like the zoo, or to see Blackpool lights. That way he gets to spend some time with his kids, and you get some quiet time alone.

One other is, when he apologises, do take it. Never bring up a subject that he has already apologised for. Men don't hold grudges, that's one thing they can do, but we do. A bunch of flowers might not take away the hurt of the things he has said, but the thought and intention is there and it will make you both happier if you took them graciously and gave him a hug!

Anyway, well done for talking! Do buy a copy of that book (or loan it from the library). You will see the rewards for your efforts, honestly. You've been very brave in taking all this criticism, you're still open-minded enough to question your own judgement. You sound like a really nice person, I wish you all the luck in the world!

We went to the seaside the other day on a whim, it was pouring, and cold, but had a good time. Stocked up our pennies and 2p's and used them all in the arcades and felt like a kid again!

Thanks Rhubarb and Lou33 and everyone who has given their support and constructive critism. I don't mind what anyone says I just want life to be fun. I don't need much to keep me happy, but life is here to be enjoyed.
Lou33 I think I want to do something mad, forget all of lifes' pressures and feel like a kid again

Then go for it kkgirl. When we are on our deathbeds the things we want to look back on are the things we did, not those we wished we had but never got around to .