when does it stop hurting

[trytopullyoursocksup]

My DP doesn't want me. we met a couple of years ago, I wasn't long dating / post divorce, he was divorced longer than me. I didn't realise it because he didn't tell me but he had a lot of ideas about what a relationship could or should look like. Maybe joint holidays, even blended families type of thing (we both have two children). I was happy to take things slow; but I didn't reject him - he didn't ask me for anything.

He fell in love with me and did hint at getting serious, gradually, in the future. I allowed myself to think this was a good idea. he seemed nice, affectionate, enthusiastic, the sex was great. I fell in love with him and I thought we were building a future together, which is something I had not really allowed myself to dream of. (ex was abusive, I have low self esteem and lots of difficulties due to being bullied as a child) (ex was very emotionally intense at the beginning and I got swept up in it all, I thought I was doing the right thing by taking things slower, not getting my kids involved too soon etc)

I thought he was wonderful and everything was great. But now it turns out he doesn't think the same. he doesn't think we have a future, he doesn't think I have time for a relationship, he doesn't want me any more. I didn't do what he wanted in time, essentially, and now he isn't interested. he isn't breaking up with me (right now) but he is practically suggesting that I should. he is (in my mind) rewriting the beginning of our relationship as me "mis selling" myself (he thought I was sportier than I was, I had more time then to be outdoorsy before I lost my job and had to retrain). Our kids don't really get on (they haven't spent much time together) and I don't really make my kids do things like hang out with people they don't like and he is more of a controlling parent so I think his vision of the future was one where we would tell our kids to like each other or something (what? how could you). aAnyway he is full of resentment about things I didn't even know were happening at the time and I can't talk to him about it. I can't explain that I didn't reject him because he didn't propose anything. He just doesn't see it that way and I think it's too late.

I can't bear the way I feel about this. It is really hurting my heart. I went on a dating site as basically he is telling me it's over but I don't have the strength to leave him. I wanted to get some self esteem back. But chatting to men who aren't him feels awful and wrong and is making me feel worse. I would never have gone on the site if I hadn't thought it was over. But thinking about ending it just makes me feel terrible.

I would love him to come back to me but I dont think he will.

what this looks like in daily life: I long for messages, calls, he is inaccessible. I try to make arrangements to see him, he gets cross about how busy he is and diary clashes. he always does less than he said he would, later than he said he would. He never says anything nice to me, he never compliments me or says he misses me or loves me or likes me. I feel utterly pathetic and desperate.

In the medium / long term, no one would probably be better but I can't let go of some idea that he is just going through something and basically in the end we can be happy together.

I know you will all say just leave but I just dont have the strength.

Basically I became exclusive with him and fell in love because I thought he was offering me love. If he is not offering me love and a future then he's just a fwb (excellent benefits though) and he doesn't have the right to exclusivity and he isn't enough for me. When I was seeing a few fwbs in the past, they were sweeter to me than he is. It's not sex I want from a dating site, it's the sweetness. It's the sense that someone thinks I am a good thing, that going for a drink with me is fun and interesting.

I suppose if he was always going to fall out of love with me and treat me with coldness and impatience, it's a good thing that we don't live together and I should stop beating myself up about "ruining things" by "not moving fast enough". I put mine and my kids' security first and that must have been the right thing to do.

I suppose what I am asking is: will I meet someone who won't be cold and impatient when the novelty wears off? (this is what happened with ex.) How can you tell? - if someone can stay in love for one or two years then you don't know till after then what they'll be like when they've grown used to you. Can you stop yourself falling in love for that long, with someone who loves you? (if anyone ever will love me again.) and how do I get through this next bit of time with what feels like great big lumps of broken glass in my chest? I feel so much pain

The thing that hurts me - my ex did this too - is that I thought we were in love and we were making each other happy, but now he implies it was never good. My ex went through a phase about 3 years in where he started taking the piss out of me as I was in the early days, making out I was weird and difficult and ridiculous and laughable. I never got the feeling at the time I was weird and difficult, he was falling in love with me and that made me feel good. I found that very painful. Now when the newer man is talking gloomily about how awful I am, and how terrible our relationship is, he projects it way back onto the very beginning so I can't even hold onto some fond belief that I was special and exciting once.
I wonder now whether this is a pattern, a thing certain a type of man does when he falls out of love; embarrassment and resentment as the limerance goes away makes them sort of lash out at past-you who made them foolish enough to love you?
I haven't broken up with him. I should but I haven't.
@FlowerArranger I downloaded the sample of the Self Esteem book and read it last night. It is excitingly apposite and I will buy the whole thing, thank you. I don't know if books can actually change how you feel though. Even if they seem to apply to you, even if you understand them and it's true and illuminating, can they change the part of you that is missing?

Abusive for falling out of love? No. But a decent and morally sound man who fell out of love would realise the promises he's made, the fact that you love him and deal with it by ending things in a kind way. He wouldn't be snappish and irritable while he waits for you to do the job for him. Whether he's 'technically abusive' who knows, imagine living with someone like this though, who becomes v hostile bevause you aren't doing what he wants. Id call that abusive myself.

You dont have to perfectly like yourself to find love, thats out of reach for many of us with traumatic childhoods or previous marriages. But you do, as a pp said , have to have solid values and boundaries that you follow through on. You trust yourself not by always picking the right person every time but by knowing you will never lower your own bar on acceptable behaviour. You can do it by looking at it objectively. Take yourself out of the equation, would you be happy for a dear and loved friend to be in this situation? How would you feel seeing someone treat them like this? Would you feel sad or angry? Would you advise them to leave or stay? When you have the answer...expect yourself to feel upset, to grieve, to feel pain and then follow through on a promise to care for yourself. No matter how much it hurts. If you keep doing this for yourself you create trust in yourself and thats the only thing you really need for healthy relationships. That doesn't mean everyone you meet is perfect for you it just means you move past people who aren't quickly.

I hope that helps. I have a terrible track record but am with someone I love and who loves me happily for 2 years. Not always easy with the usual 40+ with kids baggage. But healthy communication and respect. Good luck.

I don't know if books can actually change how you feel though. Even if they seem to apply to you, even if you understand them and it's true and illuminating, can they change the part of you that is missing?

No, I don't think a book can fundamentally change you. But it can make you be aware of other people's behaviours and motivations and alert you to potential pitfalls and dangers. They can teach you to see the things that put you at risk of being sucked in or act against your own best interests, and give you the tools to protect yourself.

It's a learning process, and you do have to change your mindset, but the real you won't change. Bear in mind that practice makes perfect, so do not expect to develop these strategies and raise your self-esteem overnight.

I'm glad you found Dr Barden's book useful, but do read Women Who Love Too Much as well. Awful title, but it is a classic, full of useful insights. Check it out on Goodreads!

It just sounds like you have a habit of dating abusive pricks op. You keep talking about them being in love and falling out of it. The way they go from warm to ice cold is standard narcissist behaviour.

They put you on a pedestal. But that's not love. Because the second you put a toe out of line you come crashing off it. It's not you they love. It's an idea of whomever their ideal women is, that they've superimposed onto you. Qn ideal no one can ever live up to.

And you're do desperate for love that you keep choosing men that don't actually care who you are.

Tbf, even you dont care who you are.
BTW there is no piece of you missing that any other person can fill. You are whole and complete as just you. Other people are just...added spice. They can enrich your life if added correctly, but that's all. If you can't bring the main course to the table then no amount of cumin and coriander can make a meal.
...OK now I'm hungry xD

Books can educate you and fill in gaps in your knowledge. So yes, they can change you.

You've learned to self flagelate and accept bad relationships. It doesn't sound like that's worked well for you (can't imagine it does for anyone). It is just learnt behaviour though. Don't teach the same crappy lessons to your kids. Re-educate yourself.

Sorry OP, but this is a very unhealthy mindset. Have you ever had counselling to process your childhood? Another person can’t fill the void left by a lack of love from your parents. I’m saying this as I used to be the same - chasing validation from relationships because I didn’t get the love and support I needed as a child. It doesn’t work. You need to develop the tools and strength to give yourself the love, support and validation you’re missing. That’s a huge expectation to put on a partner, no-one can be everything.

on the specifics of this relationship though he does sound like he may be rewriting history to suit him - blaming you for the relationship breakdown because you didn’t bend to his agenda. This is certainly manipulative. Nobody knows the ins and outs, we’re strangers on the internet, so whether he was abusive I don’t think we can say for sure but he definitely sounds unpleasant and uncaring. You know you need to end this.

thank you everyone for all your thoughtful replies.

I did get the Women Who Love Too Much book and I am looking at the 10 steps, the road to recovery. It's a lot to think about - 10 very distinct things which are all pretty time consuming and demanding. But I am not ok and I have never been ok and I will never be ok if I don't do something.

Being the lily-livered coward that I am, I appreciate that I don't actually have to leave this man to start the process. The book promises that things will change, with or without the man. he doesn't live with me, i don't need to let him disrupt the process, I just need to start.

As those of you who have read the book know, the first thing to be done is "go for help." I put getting the book down as my first thing I have done for that, but then changed it to coming here and writing my first post. I really appreciate all your thoughts and advice. I didn't want to hear that I had to make so many changes, but I knew in my heart even before I posted that I do.

This must seem daunting,@trytopullyoursocksup , but you probably know how to eat an elephant. ...... one bite at a time... You can do this!

Does anyone have any tips for how to find a support group?
I don't have alcoholism in my family and it's not the main issue in my relationships (ex drinks too much but it's not a constant in my life). So I don't think it's AlAnon for me. I think I need a support group specifically about this kind of quasi addictive relationship behaviour. And for women. I am googling keywords + my area, but nothing comes up. Does anyone have any tips for what to search for or organisations that can point me in the right direction?

I think Women's Aid is primarily aimed at victims of abuse, but they have a search facility for services in your area:

www.womensaid.org.uk/womens-aid-directory/

There's also the Freedom Programme, which can be done online, but I believe there are also some local groups.

Plus ask your GP - maybe they can refer you to a self-help group or for counselling.

Some people find CBT helpful.

OK so you're arguably talking about codependency. Have a Google and see if it rings bells.

But hanging about with more ppl with that same issue, isn't going to help you. Same for if it's just a need to date in order to feel complete.

You would be wise perhaps to look into therapy.

But the last thing you should do is seek out other people with the same emotional issues to hang about with.

You need to look for emotionally healthy people to add ibto your friendship group. And as you struggle to find those as partners, you may find you struggle to find them as friends to.

Sorry but you need to do the self work. Emphasis on self. Keep reading.

Of course that doesn't mean you can't go out qnd enjoy life. But go to enjoy. Not to wallow in self pity. And right now you don't seem ready for that.

Take things step by step.
If you have a good supportive friend, call them for a cuppa.

Pinkbonbon, a support group is a structured group of people who are dealing with a specific issue (as AA is for alcoholics) and is basically the opposite of just using people to "have a wallow".
the book recommended "women who love too much" has a 10 point plan and having a support group is one of the 10 points. It's easy to find people to talk to but that isn't the same as facing your issues, dealing with them by a commitment to showing up to a group and acknowledging that you have to change, helping others to change, and them "keeping you honest" (and you them) in doing the work to change.
I don't have time for any bullshit. I am doing the things in the 10 points because I have just read a book by an expert that is offering me hope that things can be different - but I know enough to know that things are only different if you do things differently. If you are following a programme, you have to follow a programme. I would rather not have more things to do and I would rather I could change things by "having a cuppa".
Scoffing at support groups without understanding what they are for is like effortlessly slim people mocking someone carefully following a diet and exercise programme.

There's also codependency for dummies OP, it recommends a 12 step programme. It's a good book to read and helped me. It has made me look at my codependency in a relationship and how I communicate, can also spot other people being disingenuous now.

A 'support group' for people who think they need men to complete them would pretty much just be people wallowing though, be honest. That's why there aren't support groups for it. There might be meetup groups of course. Social things y'know.

I recon support for codependency probably wouldn't be group based either. Because it wouldn't be healthy for people who all share that same issue to congregate. Professionals would provably advise individual therapy for that one.
That way there's no risk of picking up other bad habits from other ppl going through it.

I don't mean to criticise, I'm just saying that looking for q support group for xodependency is a bit like looking for a pub in which to discuss staying off booze. Potentially pretty counter productive.

There's been a 12 step programme since the 80s for codependency/love addicts. It obviously works for some people, just like AA groups. It's no different at all.

One of the best things you can do for codependency is create a wide, strong and social support in your life.

Don't want you to feel like you're going through it alone. But I'm just saying, reach out for professional help and talk with friends you know you can trust. Don't go looking to form attachments with other people who have the same issues - because it could be counter productive.

You all have the same journey to go through but if it's codependency then you're very at risk from other people's toxic. Even if they are nice people, codpendency can make a person behave in a toxic way as they depend on others for their self worth (And that supply can be unstable so they I turn can become unstable). You need to add emtionally healthy people to your life, not more people who are suffering or who may take more from you than they give right now because you both have lowered boundaries.

Oh OP! Im like you, I thrive in a relationship and no good single but I do it.

Yes you will meet someone else but, you won't until you completely get this man out your life, so you can heal and move on.

You need to completely end the relationship, stop communicating with him and block and delete all his contact details. The sooner you do this the sooner the sooner you will start the next chapter of your life. No man worth his salt wants his girlfriend's ex hanging about

Pinkbonbon, you are talking offensive rubbish now. You seem to be making out that anyone who suffers from a particular issue is some sort of terrible lame duck who can't help anyone else and needs to look to "better / healthier" people only for support and insight. This is absolute rubbish - peers helping peers is the basis of many successful programmes like AA. Many people are very talented, strong and insightful while also having a certain particular issue that they need to work on; and now I do take great exception to your implication that anyone like me is automatically useless and a negative influence.

Despite an unhealthy pattern of getting too invested in certain relationships, I am a very intelligent, courageous, determined and analytic person. I am certainly not useless to others and I would be very pleased to meet other women like me and receive help from them.

Apart from anything else - whole swathes of experts would disagree with you. you can't possibly be taking it upon yourself to write off the whole notion of peer support as "wallowing", unilaterally, based on your own prejudices about the uselessness of someone who has a particular problem?

This is very dangerous. People like you who talk so confidently about things you know nothing about could do real harm on here.