Lying - why does it hurt when one is lied to?

[Countingthegreyhairs]

A close family member lies - alot - to herself and to us (the rest of the family) and always has. We are a reasonably close family and we don't really like to discuss her among ourselves because it feels disloyal. However, the situation is now getting so extreme that it's got to the point where it affecting us all in very negative and concrete ways (finances are involved) and is therefore impossible to ignore, hence this post.

She seems to be unaware that we all know she is lying which can be embarrassing as well as hurtful and I hate to see her do this to herself and us. She's highly intelligent but doesn't seem to have a lot of self-awareness.

The lying is hurtful and I've had enough. I'm trying to find a way to engage with her truthfully ie explain why I feel hurt when she lies to me.

The problem is: I can't quite explain it to myself. Why exactly is it hurtful when one is lied to?

Thanks PeterDuck - that just about sums it up actually!!!

(Although relieved to say that my situation doesn't sound as serious financially.)

It is about a lack of respect isn't it???

This is more about borrowing from each of us in turn, saying she is going to pay us back and not doing so (even though we haven't asked her to) spending money like water, forgetting what she has borrowed, borrowing from another member of the family who is on a low income and has to scrape by, not being able to keep a job because she is always late/taking unwarranted sick days etc etc, using money she has borrowed to buy her friends presents instead of paying the phone bill, and on and on and on it goes ... it's been happening for over a decade at least ... some times worse than others ....

It also (if this doesn't sound too over-the-
top) feels like a betrayal for some reason I'm not quite clear about.

I'm so close to the situation - not helped by the fact that I love the person concerned v. much and hate her making such a mess of her life and am sick with worry about her - that it's all going around in a muddle in my head and it's hard to see things clearly.

I feel I should be helping her out because I love her and she is family and yet I'm resentful of her taking advantage at the same time. Arrrrgghhh. Just don't know how to handle this one at all ....

The best thing to do would be all o you to stop bailing her out. No more lending her money.
You probably already know that but it's doing her more harm than good

Is there a possibility that she is bipolar? The money issue combined with the confidence that none of you realise what she is up to, and the irresponsibility in regard of work, sound like symptoms of the manic phase of bipolar. Does she also get a bit depressed on and off? She might need more help than a money counsellor ... (I have a close family member with this disorder).

OI @ lying = bipolar

Sorry was away settling dd.

Thank you for the replies.

Dooley - that was what a friend of mine (a health professional) has already said and I know, in my heart of hearts, that that is the right course of action. That's one of the reasons why I'm posting I suppose because I can't really refuse her any more money without "lying" myself ...can I???

... which brings me to Peter Duck's point (thank you very much again!) ... she isn't contrite periodically because up to this point everyone in the family has "gone along" with her version of events so as not to hurt her feelings and because we're a bit of a typically English (ie reticent) family I suppose. (And it has only now reached a really serious level in that she's had her phone cut off several times, she's missed some mortgage payments, she's over 50 and out of work and can't find a job).

It's complicated to explain. She's older than me and not someone that it would be easy to approach about these things, partly because the deception is so established, partly because she has a great deal of pride (whilst at the same time having terrible self doubt if that makes sense) and partly because we all have a fear that it would destroy her if she was "exposed" because - although one wouldn't think so in the circs - family is very important to her and the one thing in her life that is stable.

We feel really guilty too because she's had a horrible tragedy in her life and as a result she isn't in a settled relationship whereas we all are. Although, to be objective, her behaviour was like this before the tragedy happened.

AussieSim - thanks for suggesting that (genuinely sorry if this is causing offence Vacua). I don't know anything about bipolar but I have wondered about her mental health in generally obviously. She did attend counselling for a while off her own bat, but I could tell from her comments afterwards "I think x (the counsellor) really would have liked to be my friend in other circs" that she didn't continue with it for long enough or approach it in the right way.

Don't know whether it's best to confront her by explaining honestly why I'm feeling angry and hurt or just stop giving her money (and lie saying something such as "dh will be furious with me if I write you another cheque").

Sorry - didn't mean for post to be quite so long!!!

Thanks for the suggestion PeterDuck. Dh is pretty sensitive and could probably handle it better than me tbh. I don't want to abrogate (sp?) familial responsibility though. Hwr, the 'not blood relation point' is a good one. It's definitely something I'll have to mull over ...thanks again.

Vacua - I don't want to offend anyone with bipolar - some of my best friends ... but I didn't say "lying=bipolar" I said irresponsible with money and work and feeling confident might mean Manic.

concede it as a possibility but important not to pathologise what might just be bad behaviour as a) bit stigmatising for the more glamorous and competent faces of manic depression and b) can become excuse for acting shabbily towards one's friends/family

am not offended anyway

Having surfed a bit, I think bipolar and manic depression are both possibilities. But in this instance it seems that:

money = good mood, confident, energetic

no money = depression, low energy and a lower confidence level (but not to the point of admitting she is struggling etc)

but that could be a normal reaction to having no money as well I suppose.

To gently confront or not gently confront - that is the question.

bipolar and manic depression are just two different terms for one condition

irrespective of the possible psychiatric bases of her behaviour, I think gentle confrontation is in everyone's best interests - if you can catch her in a reasonably receptive sort of mood?

Thanks Vacua. For some reason, I'm quite "afraid" of doing so as the person concerned is "senior" to me and has quite a forceful personality, also I don't want to destroy her strong self-image (which is built on lies to be honest but it's all she has). That sounds so horrible I know but it's true.

Also saying something (however compassionately) such as "I don't feel it's in your best interests to give you any more money" and trying to explain why, is bound to sound patronising and smug, however well it is done (and I'm crap at this sort of thing frankly)

Sorry for sounding so negative. This thread IS really helping me to sort my thoughts/actions out in advance.

I jsut want to get across how much we love her IN SPITE OF all the other stuff ....

correction

on the ""that's all she has" point

I've not expressed that at all well

She is also very charming, personable, generous, intelligent and incredibly creative

• what I meant was that her self-image is not based on these things (I wish it were) but rather on other aspects of her personality that are not entirely truthful

Oh I feel guilty even writing this down anonymously

ah she sounds more and more bipolarly by the minute; charming, intelligent, creative . . . !

it must be so difficult for all of you, but you are right about her 'best interests' - would she get very upset if you suggested that she visit her GP for a referral to a psychiatrist, for assessment? I do think you all have to start saying 'no' or come up with ways to support her in becoming more independent. There must be something she could do to earn a bit of money, a part time job somewhere? What did she do before she was unemployed?

It's because it upsets your version of your own reality. It makes a lie of your life, or an aspect of it, which is utterly disconcerting.

I had a friend who lied all the time. I put up with it for sometime and felt hurt when she lied to me. Now I have dropped her. Must be so difficult when they are a family member

Thank you again for responses and allowing me to 'vent' - much appreciated!!! It's all so worrying because I'm scared about what is going to happen to her if she is facing a future in her fifties with no home, no job, no pension etc etc

I suppose it could be worth a mention Vacua but "on the outside" if you knew her superficially, no one would know there is anything wrong. I don't mean this to sound rude but is it possible to keep up appearances to this extent if you have a serious disorder such as bipolar?

For example, she has always worked in the voluntary sector and all has gone well for a year or so until the absences and poor-time keeping/organisation has gone too far and then she is usually "made redundant". This has happened in her past five jobs; some of which were very responsible, managing small teams and budgets etc.

She tends to be very "all or nothing" so is terrific when she is focused on the matter in hand, but the focus is terribly random. She tends to get a good reference because people want to be rid of her by that stage . She usually has no problem getting another job because she is brilliant at interviews!!! Although, having said that, the intervals between jobs are getting longer and everything is starting to come crashing down on her head.

I could be mis-construing all this terribly because I don't know the exact details because she plays things pretty close to her chest and we are not the sort of family who like to intrude, but it was definitely the case the last time when she was accused of stealing money and fired.

The worst thing was, when I heard about it, I wasn't terribly surprised .... . We only know about it though because a family member paid her solicitors fees to help her appeal against her dismissal (outcome still pending).

This event was the catalyst for the family to start talking amongst ourselves and we all suddenly discoverd that we had been lending her money individually without the others realising it! (Well, tbh, we had had inklings but didn't realise the substantial sums involved and the extent of the number of family members involved.)

Shitemum - thank you (can't help but protest against your name though!!!) That is an extremely eloquent and profound post. I'll definitely use that ...

Thx Bananakickers!!! (no comment on yr name!!!)

And thanks everyone for your patience if you've read down this far!!