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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

General chat on future plans goes pear shape

19 replies

Wysiwyg55 · 19/06/2022 03:18

Where to begin?
I’m employed PAYE and DH self-employed. We’re also a second relationship and ten years married. One joint property and DH has another property (with mortgage) which he rents and is his pension pot. Both planned to retire this year.

So .. this evening nice chatter about future plans and adventures. Talk about a holiday this year then came up. He said go ahead and book one!

No problem and lucky to be able to afford it.

But when I suggested dates, he said it would be best between jobs.

I asked what that meant as I thought he was limiting the work he did as we were retiring and taking on small jobs rather than projects.

He said he needed to pay the mortgage off on his rented property and that would take anything between two and four years which is why he needed to keep working.

I made the comment that he’d “moved the goalposts” and then it all exploded.

He said I’d been party to all discussions with the accountant which I had but every time there is a different plan so I got confused and my memory is also fuzzy when it comes to most things these days (I’m blaming the menopause 🥴)

i tried to explain that I just need to know how long I should keep working to make long or short term planning (I enjoy my work too so it’s not a burden) and no point in me giving up work if I couldn’t spend time with him!

He said he couldn’t say and that for me it was easy because I knew exactly how much was coming in every month, unlike him.

He commented on the fact that I was a “nightmare”, that he did everything to sort things for us and that I should be glad of what I had!!

He then said “just F off, F off)

He's now sleeping upstairs and I’m downstairs.

We’ve had similar flare ups in the past but not for a long long time and I’ve get the same dry mouth and shaking feeling. And obviously not sleeping.

When it’s good it’s brilliant which is most of the most but when it’s bad it really makes me feel like sh1t.

Wonder whether this time we might have to admit that we’ve come as far as we can ….. I certainly don’t want to … but not so sure about him. Is this salvageable?

To put other background
Him: ex partner shafted him financially and with two affairs.

Has worked all his life and built up from nothing. Difficult childhood living in poverty. Very closed emotionally. Works incredibly hard and focuses fully on the job … a definite provider.

Me:. Recognise that I’ve made bad behaviour choices in past relationship as would push for a reaction and done my best to not do the same in this one.

To the outside world independent woman but to those who know me well, insecure. Just want to be valued and loved and when I don’t feel it, get upset (this has happened at work too). Need constant validation by friends, colleagues, family and ultimately my partner.

Compared to so many who post this is trivial … but not sure what the morning will bring …

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 19/06/2022 03:51

I think maybe your issue (insecurity) and his issue (money) were having a fight. You were both just around for it.

If he lived in poverty as a child, and was ripped off, he probably has deep-seated insecurities. And you recognise yours too.

Practically, you should retire based on when you want to. Retiring at the same time isn't actually the best as you're both adjusting at the same time.

Emotionally, I couldn't accept the 'fuck off' stuff. If he genuinely apologised for that, maybe. If not, you have bigger issues.

pompomseverywhere · 19/06/2022 06:06

I don't see this as something you can't come back from. You've posted soon after then row and you both have heightened emotions and it's hard to think straight.

I'm all for divorcing my husband straight after a row but after you've slept on it you'll feel better.

ilovelurchers · 19/06/2022 06:10

Hi OP,

I can't really comment on the content of your argument - the financial stuff - but I wanted to empathise with how you are feeling as I too am an outwardly confident person (in work etc) but absolutely collapse in the face of conflict with my spouse - it just makes me feel totally rejected, which is something I massively fear and dread.

But chin up - you will be ok. Is he likely to say sorry in the morning when he wakes up? And do you want to continue the argument/discussion, or leave it for now? Do whatever helps you get through right now. This too will pass. X

MintJulia · 19/06/2022 06:50

It sounds like he's under some sort of financial pressure and it was just the wrong moment to ask. I'd leave him to calm down and then say 'After last night's convo, when do you want to go on holiday.' And ask about the budget as well..

If he gets grumpy again, ask him if there is an issue you don't know about. Is something worrying him?

And retiring is for you, not to fit in with his timings.

picklemewalnuts · 19/06/2022 07:57

You need to restart the conversation.

'Sorry I misunderstood the time line, I thought we'd decided to retire at the same time so was a bit thrown when you said you were carrying on for a few more years. That's ok, I'll have a rethink. Can we chat about it in a day or two- I'm not sure if I want to fully retire while you are still working. Maybe I'll go part time or something.'

Then separately 'We need to work on our arguing skills! I was really upset last time!'

Ragwort · 19/06/2022 07:58

He may well be feeling nervous about the state of the economy and want to defer retiring, my DH retired this year and it would have probably been wiser, financially, to have waited a year or two (he doesn't yet qualify for the state pension) ... but he was totally fed up with work & we can manage.

However agree with others, you don't need to set your plans around him. You should retire when you want to ... not just to spend time with him. I have not retired just because my DH has (& I am older than him!).

Equally to tell you to 'F off' is truly awful, is that out of character ? .. I wouldn't want to be with someone who spoke to me like that.

MrszClaus · 19/06/2022 08:02

I can totally understand his annoyance - his early life circumstances and past relationships sound enough to keep finances a worry for him - but if you were also involved in all the meetings with the accountant, so was present when they discussed this - then accused him of moving the goal posts, id be fuming too! It sounds like despite his history with partners and finances he's made an effort to include you, and you've said "oops silly brain" and accused him of changing the plans.

If he is self employed it's true, he can't say 29 months exactly until retirement - depends totally on work and cash flow.

I don't think it's nice at all he swore at you, that would annoy me. I'd expect an apology. But I'd also expect to be apologising for my comments too. Definitely sounds salvageable to me, apologies and clearer future plans all round.

Wysiwyg55 · 19/06/2022 10:19

Thank you all for your sage, wise words.
Everything said I agree with as it comes from every perspective so thank you for your candour.
I am at fault and have apologised.
I just hope he is forgiving - though at the moment we have failed to communicate at all or make eye contact. Think today is going to be hard and we’ve got all the kids coming over two so no real chance to have any further discussions to clear the air.
My heart is pounding and fighting back tears. He’s such a proud man who reflects before doing anything - hate the silent treatment.

OP posts:
SortingItOut · 19/06/2022 10:40

The silent treatment is abusive.
He can use his words to tell you his feelings and/or ask for time to consider things before he speaks to you.

He knows you don't like silent treatment and it's his punishment for you daring to raise the early retirement issue and now you won't make that mistake again.

MrsTerryPratchett · 19/06/2022 15:27

Has he apologised? Because he very much needs to.

Turnthatoff · 19/06/2022 15:50

Our relationship isn’t perfect but I’ve not, in 25 years, been told to fuck off..
If he said that, then I definitely would. At least for a few days. There is just no excuse for that - not in the context of the discussion you were having.

pompomseverywhere · 19/06/2022 18:09

How's things OP? I've had the silent treatment all day. I've cried and been tamping mad about it. Now I'm emotionally exhausted and drained. I hope things have resolved themselves

Beancounter1 · 19/06/2022 18:23

Re. telling you to F off, I think it depends if he usually swears in everyday life, or if that was a one-off. If he is a swearer, it may not be a big issue for the two of you in your relationship.
However if it was a one-off, then it depends if he said it out of frustration and stress, or if it was aimed directly at you in a vicious and personal way. If it was just stress, that is not great, but forgivable. If it was vicious and directed right at you like he meant it, that is far more serious.
None of us know. You might guess, but you will only know if you talk.
He may not want to talk about it, but at some point in the next week or so you and he will have to have a conversation about acceptable boundaries in an argument and how to argue constructively.

Re. the retirement plans and holiday, just let it all alone for a few weeks. Talk again in August or September. In the meantime, get on with your own life / work / hobbies / friends / children / grandchildren / whatever. Detach emotionally and get your balance and calm back.

Musti · 19/06/2022 18:26

Hi op. You need to sit down with him and tell him that you have got to be able to discuss things and even disagree without being in danger of being shouted at or called names.

Musti · 19/06/2022 18:27

Re: retirement, say that you will keep on working then and you can see how things are in a few years.

MrsTerryPratchett · 19/06/2022 18:32

Re. telling you to F off, I think it depends if he usually swears in everyday life, or if that was a one-off. If he is a swearer, it may not be a big issue for the two of you in your relationship.

I swear like a sailor on shore leave. I don't tell DH to fuck off and he wouldn't tell me to. It deserves an apology and yet OP is the one who feels she has to say sorry. Which screams eggshells to me.

Crumbleburntbits · 19/06/2022 18:57

@Wysiwyg55 why did you apologise when he was verbally abusive to you? If my DH spoke to me like that I’d be ending the relationship.

Herejustforthisone · 19/06/2022 19:36

The way you described yourself was very negative, the way you described him very positive. That is worrying.

Wysiwyg55 · 21/06/2022 05:01

Thank you all for taking time out to reply.
when you write a post it is interesting the perspective people take and how those comments reflect your thoughts and gut feeling.
The negative comments about myself make sense - I’m very much one to see the bad bits rather good bits about me. Have done all my life - never quite good enough!
My comment about moving goal posts - unfair yes especially as we had previous conversations and I’m noticing DH talking more and more about the difficulties ahead financially so he is evidently worried but not overly good as verbalising.
The Eff Off conmrnt - that is something that keeps going over and hurts - why say that to me? and should I ? I think I need to just explain to him that that phrase alone hurt and though he may have been hurt by my comments, telling someone you love, have built a home with and intend on spending the second half of your life with to Eff off - is not good!

We did sort it out and Sunday was calmer than when we started and we have to move forward .
however, reading back over my post and your replies I’ve got some serious reflecting of what I actually want in the future. Thank you x

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