Worried if I've done the right thing (work related)

[WorriedPersonNumber5]

I'm posting here for hopefully a sympathetic response, and I guess it is relationship related. I'll try to be brief.

About 6 months ago I was on a work trip with a few colleagues meeting clients. It was an overnight stay. To cut a long story short, one of my male colleagues propositioned me when drunk at the end of a night out. I was shocked and obviously was like 'no way' and scarpered sharpish. I'm married, he's in a LTR and 10 years older than me.

The next day he was very embarrassed, very apologetic, said it's not like him and I didn't deserve it etc etc. I decided to accept his apology as he seemed so embarrassed I thought he'd never do it again! It seemed out of character, and he was a contractor anyway so leaving in a couple of months.

Anyway his contract got extended a few months to handover some work, but we got on professionally and I obviously ensured not to get into that situation again. I did confide in what happened to a colleague who is also a friend who was also shocked, but I didn't think much more about it after that.

Anyway it's transpired he's now done the same thing to another female colleague on a team night out. She confided in the same friend who then told her it had happened before and would she agree to tell me and she said yes. She called the colleague out at the time and told him how inappropriate it was, and he gave all the same apologies he gave me. We obviously had concerns then that it was pattern and whilst we could handle ourselves, we have younger female staff members and worried maybe he would try it with them.

We hadn't really done any more until colleague confided in us both separately that he's in talks to extend again, and possible become a permanent director. Which means a chance of line managing me. My colleague approached me and said that he'd told her he might become permanent and she was concerned about it.

We discussed that we have a duty to say something if he's going to be potentially in this situation of power, so I made a relatively spur of the moment decision to tell our MD (who I have a good relationship with) but in an 'off the record' capacity for the moment. He was very good and said he will take time to consider what to do.

I'm shitting it now for various reasons. That they'll rescind on his extension and he'll know why. That they'll keep him on and I won't know what to do about my own position. That I'll have made an enemy. It's also compounded that at the time he propositioned me I didn't tell my husband (we've had quite a rough time, been in therapy and I know he would have gone ballistic then been very anxious/funny about work trips, which I have to do semi regularly.) As The guy was leaving and I wasn't taking it further I thought best to let it slide. But now I've said something to work i now might have to admit I didn't tell him 6 months ago.

I know the facts are; he's propositioned two female colleagues, we have no idea if it's happened before and no way to know if it will or won't happen again. He may be entering a position of power and we have a duty of care to young female staff members.

However I'm now worried that (as seems to happen in these situations) it will somehow blow up for me and my colleague and we've opened Pandora's box. I'm cross I'm even in this position as if he did manage me I feel my position would be untenable as I have zero respect for him.

So thanks for getting this far - have I done the right thing or not?

I'm not sure why HR are involved either - the reason I had an off the record chat was precisely because I thought they were in the position to make a quiet decision either way. But they had verbally agreed to his extension so maybe that's why.

It's escalated way beyond what I wanted, I just thought I had a duty of care to let them know (and if I was boss I would have said thanks for the heads up and made an excuse as to why we could no longer keep him!)

He's worked for the company before though and is well known and well liked (and also in the industry) so I guess this is why I'm worried that will override the risk.

HR will investigate, write up a report with recommendations - that management may (probably will, but I don’t know your organisation) act upon.

They will investigate all sides - who was drinking, what was said, who else was present etc. It has to be a rounded investigation.

Recommendations could vary - but may not end up with him losing his job. They could ban alcohol on work related trips / evening out. They could put safeguards in place for trips involving an overnight stay. They could recommend training - who knows? But it won’t necessarily end up with him losing his position (if that’s what’s concerning you).

Before I start any workplace investigation I always ask the complainant “what outcome would you like” . So what outcome would you like ?

You've not fucked your career, your MD is taking this seriously as this man is a reputational risk. You've 100% done the right thing, and whatever the outcome, it's consequences of his actions, not yours.

and if I was boss I would have said thanks for the heads up and made an excuse as to why we could no longer keep him

they can’t do that op, it would be completely unprofessional and unacceptable. They have a duty to investigate and make a sound judgement.

it’s clear you dislike him and want rid, but no decent company would just get rid of someone like that, you could have been exaggerating or being malicious. They have a duty of care to him too.

That’s not true. She might have, it’s not just him who is being investigated, by default it’s her too. They need to work out if she is telling the truth, lying, or if she is over exaggerating and being malicious because she does not like him, that’s why what the other woman says is critical

if the other woman says the same thing it’s fine, if the other woman says I was a little concerned but the op was pushing to get it reported, she hates him, but I don’t think it’s that big a deal. Then yeah she’s fucked. This is clearly about more than a drunken pass. She doesn’t like him, and doesn’t want to work for him, she even says she’s zero respect for him, which is wider than just he made a drunken pass and apologised profusely the next day and never did it again to me.

so none of us can guess how this will go, it depends on what each party says and if this is deemed as malicious and personal or valid. I’m concerned that the op doesn’t know what the other woman has said, even if told to keep confidential you’d let your mate know you’d spelled it out.

I have no respect for him because of how he's behaved. I hope they know me well enough to know I'm not malicious, but I suppose all those questions will be asked won't they.

I haven't spoken to my friend since we said something as I don't want to be accused of conspiring/getting our stories straight. She needs to say what she needs to say without my input or interference.

But yes your response is while I feel sick.

And just to clarify - his contract ends next week. They are not 'getting rid of him' it would be a decision on whether they want to make him more permanent going forward.

Not my decision but I thought they should know about this pattern of behaviour before making the decision to put him in a senior position working with other female staff members.

I just said what I would do (billet dodged) but ultimately I've said to them it's their decision.

What do I want? To not have to work with him if he knows I've said this, and to know that other female colleagues won't have the same approaches from him.

I wonder if management might pivot around the ‘drunk and aggressive’ angle, rather than the sex pest angle. It is shitty that these things can’t be called out for what they are but that would take the pressure off you and your colleague.

I think that’s difficult as it doesn’t appear anyone has complained about him being aggressive and the op commented he was well liked and well respected, in a later post.

yes op, to do their jobs correctly and fairly they need to look at it from all angles and yes rhey need to ask all those questions, from is it what you said, is it you don’t like him and are using this as leverage, can he tenably work there, can you.

the other thing is, this was six months ago, if you were so concerned about your female colleagues and disgusted, why has it taken you six months to say anything and why have you happily worked closely with him since then. Why didn’t you go in the next day or as soon as you found out he’d made a pass at someone else? Neither of you did anything then either, you both continued to happily work with him and say nothing. For months. That is a signficant issue.

I've explained why. He was supposed to be leaving early this year. Then it was extended to hand over work. I wasn't happy but at that point I thought it was a one off.

Then the incident with my colleague happened last month (but I only found out a couple of weeks later) and to our knowledge he was still leaving. It's when he told us he might me permanent we made the decision we couldn't keep it to ourselves. We don't know if there is another staff member thinking she's the only one.

He wasn't supposed to tell us. Why did he tell specifically me and her?!

But why do women not speak up. For all the points just made. I regret it.

Interesting though. I think these questions are always asked of women aren't they.

Why didn't you say something? Why didn't you stand up for yourself? Why did you trust him?

I'm asking myself why I felt the need to protect his reputation and not cause him embarrassment. It's a natural reaction that it would cause too much aggro to say something and so better just to keep things sweet and make sure I'm not around him in certain situations. I thought his mortification was enough and completely out of character. Obviously that opinion changed when he was aggressive towards my colleague. And then when he propositioned another colleague. A realisation that there is a pattern and that it's concerning.

But thank goodness, he's leaving soon.

Oh, but actually maybe he's not. Do I say something to let them know we have these concerns?

That's the question. Should I/we have kept quiet. Is it a big enough deal to warrant speaking out?

To be honest if you felt as strongly as you do and it was as heinous as uou said then yes you should all have spoken out immediately. You must logically know it becomes very difficult six months later and could be argued as something else, particularly if you’ve continued to work with him. He could also try to argue this point.

as said, if the other woman ans whomever he was aggressive too all speak up like you then he’s toast. If it’s just you and the others mimimise or say you are on a witch hunt then yes it is you who is toast. None of us know the others, or what they are saying, but you should know them well enough to know what sort of integrity they have, and how they will behave.

for example I have a couple of colleagues who will whinge, agree with me, but when it comes to in front of management, they just murmur it’s all good and no issue, they will even go as far as to disagree and change their position. Ie they want me to take the fall as they don’t want to be seen as the bad guys or Jeapordise their own positions.

hopefully it goes your way op, but the point is unless you’ve an inkling of whay the others are saying, then it’s difficult to guess.

I never said it was heinous - it was inappropriate. I did speak out (ie I told some trusted colleagues) but at the time didn't think there was a need to take it further.

Actually just heard from my colleague and she's been spoken to now and has told them what happened to her. She's still totally of the mind we've done the right thing and is supportive.

They are aware of the aggressive incidents btw, I guess it just wasn't a dealbreaker for them.

But there a myriad reasons why people choose not to say anything at the time. It really doesn't invalidate what's happened.

Not in any way to compare at all (in any way) but do remember the same was being said of the first few who told their story about jimmy saville before the scale of what happened came to light. I very clearly remember the Philip schofield interview where he grilled a victim and said 'but why didn't you say anything then!'

It's not the same thing or level of seriousness in any way (though does highlight even in the most serious situations the same questions are asked if those that speak) and I'm old enough to stand up for myself and call out inappropriate behaviour. But at that stage did I think there was any need to say anything to management? No.

Did I after a pattern started to emerge? Yes.

I have two colleagues who can verify that I told them about the incident at the time. And who have. And another colleague who separately told the same colleague about an incident which was very similar.

We made a call to speak up as we thought it was important for the sake of other female colleagues. Would it have been easier to say nothing and hope he didn't do it again? Yes. Absolutely

You've done the right thing, whatever happens, no matter how much s* hits the fan, because you would never have been able to forgive yourself if he'd coerced a more junior colleague into something. Hang on to that.

Such a weird idea that you have a time limit on policing someone else’s behaviour. It’s perfectly possibly to enjoy working with someone, think they’re good at their job, even like them! and still be offended and upset they came on to you drunk. I think you’ve done exactly the right thing OP.

Not read the full thread properly but just wanted to say I'm in a similar position (but it went much further than him making a move on me during a time that I was signed off sick with mental health) - I think you did the right thing

I didn't speak out, after he made my job very difficult following the incident.. I was too scared and now too much time has passed anyway. My counsellor advised me not to say anything as it would harm my career.... I didn't know what to think

I've since developed some fairly major imposter syndrome and genuinely believe I cannot do my job. My confidence is on the floor.

He has since been promoted and I'm leaving.

It's such a difficult situation. I've been made to look like a troublemaker as I requested a team move to get away from him.

You are very brave and I hope things work out for you. To my knowledge mine did not try to get involved with any other female colleague so I was on my own.

I understand how scary speaking out is. We are told we should do, but is it that simple?

@Namechangerr1 I am so so sorry that this happened to you, and so angry that this man has been promoted.

I have spoken to my colleague and found out more about exactly what he said to her (which she's told HR and which was totally disgusting).

I have found my fire again and I know I've done the right thing. If I hadn't, I may have a junior colleague that ended up in a similar situation to you, and that's completely unacceptable.

Well done, you did the right thing but it’s so difficult.
btw I don’t think it’s a problem that you didn’t tell your husband. It was something that someone said to you, not something you participated in. In some occupations women get men propositioning them or trying to chat them up all the time, there’s no reason they would report every instance to their husbands!