Confused about marriage - chemistry v compatibility v fundamental values

[NCmarriagequestions]

Have NCed for this. Long, apologies in advance.

Married to DH for 10 years, together for 16. Two children, DD5, DS3. Him from your typical British upper class boarding-school-at-8 emotionally stunted family. Me from a immigrant mother/working class dad made good US family.

when we’re good we’re great - there’s honestly no one else I’d rather be with. We went away alone this weekend and it was superb. Still fancy him etc.

BUT

We have such radically different domestic/ parenting styles that life is a grind. He fundamentally isn’t interested in being a hands on parent. But then I work full time and him part time. (We have a full time nanny, a cleaner etc.) He spends a lot of time telling me how tired he is. We spend a lot of time bickering, and me loathing what a fucking selfish grumpy git he is.

also - I am holding onto a lot of resentment about him letting me down when dd was young - basically she was such a hard baby and he left me totally to it / was unbelievably shockingly selfish about making sure his own needs were met. Even though I was back at hardcore FT work and really really struggling. Compounded by him then basically fucking off travelling when I was pregnant with baby no2 (he was in between jobs and on sabbatical). It’s left me with a lingering sense that it’s not a matter of if he lets me down again, but when - which is objectively unfair but I can’t shake the feeling he’s just not able
to prioritise me.

it’s all adding up to a not very fun day to day existence.

we’re in marriage counselling and our therapist has expressed surprise that we’ve lasted this long as “you’re so different”. My personal therapists view is that I need to just stick out these young child years and then we can go back to the happy fun “us” - she says there is a lot of good, even if now I’m obsessing about the bad.

does anyone else have a relationship like this? When you go online for relationship advice it tends to be more for situations where “he’s a good dad but there’s no intimacy it’s really boring” etc. DH and I are the opposite. We spend (relatively) lots of time as a couple, and have a lovely time doing it. We have good sex. I still fancy him, and he me. So long as he has essentially a voluntary opt in basis to what I’ll call “family life” then he’s happy. But that makes me feel resentful. So I feel like we’re not your classic long relationship couple.

anyone else in the same boat? I don’t really know what I’m looking for - maybe just some people who are/have been in similar situations.

I would say that letting go of the resentment is key. He needs to acknowledge how you feel about his behaviour (rightly) and you need to find some way of addressing the domestic load together. If you can't do that then split.

My mum harbours 30 years of resentment towards my dad for very similar reasons. She was a career woman and whilst he likes her income he did not support her one bit at home. Some of it was generational but he was never willing to lift a finger as a dad. He would work all week and drink on a Friday. Then he would golf all weekend. He would cause a fuss if he even had to drop us off at school (even though it was on his way to work). Whilst I understand her resentment it has made her a thoroughly miserable person. She snaps at my dad all the time, it's very hard to be around and we literally hate visiting them. They are very different people all together though so May stand less chance than you do.

Ah @TaraRhu that sends a shiver down my soul. I do t want to be like that.

How long have you been in relationship counselling I wonder? It can take time. I certainly recognise some features in the dynamic you describe. Perhaps each understanding what was going on for the other e.g. when he went travelling would help with letting go of the resentment. In my way of thinking, letting go of that is vital whether you choose to stay together or split up.

I'm left thinking about your feeling that he's only involved with the family on a voluntary opt in basis - and that perhaps that's how he felt his parents were involved with him?

He might not change much, but I'll say (6 months in to relationship counselling) that understanding does help and being able to change a few concrete things on the basis of understanding each other better has also helped.

My personal therapists view is that I need to just stick out these young child years and then we can go back to the happy fun “us” - she says there is a lot of good, even if now I’m obsessing about the bad.

Sack your therapist.
It's not her job to give you advice - & even if it were - hers is crap.
I'm not being glib here - this is fucking shocking from somebody who is meant to be on Team You.

I also don't understand why your therapist chose to diss you by saying you are "obsessing about the bad". I don't see you obsessing. I see you naming the problem clearly & distinctly.

He works part time, but you do the lion's share of the parenting, he fucked off on a teenage gap year when you were pregnant, you have to pay for a full time nanny & a cleaner because he won't do it - what DOES he actually contribute to family life?

He spends a lot of time telling me how tired he is. We spend a lot of time bickering, and me loathing what a fucking selfish grumpy git he is.
How is he tired?
He works part time & doesn't appear to lift a finger round his house or children.

when we’re good we’re great - there’s honestly no one else I’d rather be with. We went away alone this weekend and it was superb.
So ... he's a fucking selfish grumpy git, unless you are paying for child-free mini breaks?

It’s left me with a lingering sense that it’s not a matter of if he lets me down again, but when - which is objectively unfair but I can’t shake the feeling he’s just not able to prioritise me.
Sweetheart - that's not a lingering sense. It's a fact, jumping up & down & screaming "look at me!" - he does not prioritise you.

him letting me down when dd was young - basically she was such a hard baby and he left me totally to it / was unbelievably shockingly selfish about making sure his own needs were met.
You are working full time, I imagine you are the one paying for the cleaner & nanny, because he refuses to step up, & unless you make everything all about him & fun times (eg child free weekend away) - he punishes you by withholding support & being a grumpy selfish git.

How much would it cost you to divorce him?

It would have been over for me when he fucked off on his jollies while you were pregnant. He showed you there exactly where his priorities lie and they aren’t with you.

When you have a family it isn’t normal or acceptable to sail through life as though you have no responsibilities. In your shoes I would be resentful too.

My dh pisses me off in lots of ways, we are so different in our approach to work, tidiness, fitness, eating habits etc, but at our core we are the same. Family comes first for both of us. He would never leave me to struggle knowing he could help. He doesn’t have it in him. To me, knowing I can rely on him is what’s important, the rest pales into insignificance.

Your dh has made it clear that he won’t support you and you can’t rely on him. It’s up to you to decide whether or not you can live like that. And fwiw your personal therapist is batshit.

Try a new therapist.

I think the resentment will overshadow the good times as the years pass.

I've long had and nurture the theory that many men have not caught up with the social change around equality. Some have, many haven't.

Those women in relationships with men who haven't caught up are then dealing with old fashioned ways. He's the boss, she is responsible for the entirety of the home and the children and the wife work.

In 100 years it'll be different, but for now we are at the sharp end of living the changes ourselves and constantly struggling with partners and men who are not.

And knowing the reason behind the changes is key. Children need their fathers, and fathers need their children. Women are not second class citizens. Decision making is not solely for and in the interests of men only. Etc etc.

In your boat, I would tell him very clearly that either things change or you will have to leave, for your own peace of mind. X

Sorry re therapist - I was paraphrasing about obsessing about bad. Her view is that if I don’t want to leave him (which I don’t) I can at least look forward to things getting better in future years. And she also rightly points out (I think she is amazed by it) that I am able to have fun with him and compartmentalise the selfishness which she find unusual.

@KettrickenSmiled it would be a costly divorce for me. Very costly.

He is currently paying 50/50 of our expenses so his view is that he can spend his working time as he pleases as we are funding it equally. I find it hard though when we get to the weekend and he complains about not having enough solo time when he’s had 25-30 hours during the week and I’ve had zero (in fact less than zero as he goes out a lot on weeknights and I put the kids to bed as I haven’t seen them all day whereas he can hang out with them while our nanny gives them lunch and then have fun in the evenings).

i don’t even mind the disparities it’s just he seems so ungrateful and always wanting more.

@semideponent you are spot on re his family. His view is that he is massively massively more present and engagement than his father (or indeed mother). Which is absolutely true. I don’t understand why he didn’t marry a SAHM though.

we’ve been in marriage counselling for 9 months.

Sorry re therapist - I was paraphrasing about obsessing about bad. Her view is that if I don’t want to leave him (which I don’t) I can at least look forward to things getting better in future years.
What is she basing this view on?
Because there is simply no evidence to back it up.
Unless she is saying that if you wait 15 years til the DC are independent, your H will miraculously stop being a selfish, grumpy git?

And she also rightly points out (I think she is amazed by it) that I am able to have fun with him and compartmentalise the selfishness which she find unusual.
But most bad relationships have good bits - or people would leave abusive partners even faster.
You shouldn't have to compartmentalise in a healthy relatinship, & I suspect you are in denial when you say you are "able" to. It's making you resentful, frustrated, stressed & miserable.

it would be a costly divorce for me. Very costly.
I still think you need to inform yourself of exactly how much, & what life after divorce would look like. On the quiet, of course.
Not because you are definitely going to do it - but so that you can weigh cold hard facts against your own happiness & mental health when a few more years have passed with no improvement from him.
Being able to lose money now, for improved wellbeing later, may seem a better plan later on, depending on how much you are willing to tolerate.

I don’t understand why he didn’t marry a SAHM though.

Because cocklodging off a working wife is easier than working full time, & he thinks he has a built-in guarantee against you sacking him for poor behaviour, as he could waltz off with half your assets?

I mean, the money is neither here nor there in some ways. We both have more than enough of it - me more than him but at the end of the day he’ll tip cash I give him into probably buying nice property & a standard of living which my kids will benefit from too so that’s all fine.

it’s more I don’t want to have them shuttling between us. I think he’d find someone new pretty quickly too - he has a long line of women whod love to take care of him. I’d find that hard. And ultimately I don’t want to be divorced. I don’t want my kids to have parents who are divorced.

But you possibly don't want to be married to this person either. Well, not as it set up currently.

Acceptance therapy?

A plenty of children with divorced parents do great. Just think about what kind of family dymanic you are teaching to your DD and DS, selfish Dad and Mum secretly resentful but still picking up his slack.

And ultimately I don’t want to be divorced. I don’t want my kids to have parents who are divorced.

Half of all UK marriages end in divorce. Your kids won't be unusual in that.
It's an odd reason to keep yourself miserable for.

Sorry if I missed something you already posted op but would you working part time improve things? It seems some of the resentment is how much alone time he has.

A relationship can only be judged on how it copes with conflict. Any 2 non-compatibles can have a great time together as long as none of their conflicts come up.

Healthy relationships deal with conflict in a way that resolves it. If your relationship fails to resolve conflict well, it isn't healthy.

@Mount2Climb not possible to do PT in my industry. And it’s not the alone time per se, it’s that he doesn’t acknowledge he has more time, or think that it means we should in any way adjust any of the domestic load

You have a full time nanny and a cleaner.

Therefore if you as a couple are paying for that then you have jointly decided to outsource large amounts of the domestic load.

The point is, have you kept hold of or taken on more of the domestic load than DH? It sounds like it. Did you agree that as a couple also? Decide who does what? If not then start there.